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There is some buzz from readers on the recent blog article "H-1B Visa Companies Getting Unannounced Visits by Feds" and a healthy debate going on about problems with the laws around these visas.
Reader 'Vincenzo' writes (edited):
This search for fraud misses the REAL problems with the H-1B visa - 1) the "prevailing wage" nonsense and 2) the problems with portability - ie., the difficulties of an H-1B visa beneficiary of changing jobs.
1) Prevailing wage - this is a joke. There are large loopholes in this portion of the H-1B visa laws which allows employers to LEGALLY underpay H-1B beneficiaries. Moreover, it completely goes against the "free market" philosophy so many economists and corporate big-wigs love to parrot. Why not let the market dictate wages?
2) Portability - when an H-1B visa beneficiary becomes unhappy with his current employer, the H-1B visa laws do allow him to change employers, provided that another employer is willing to take over his H-1B visa. However, when an H-1B visa beneficiary does change employers, he has to re-file his Green Card application. So if he's been waiting for three years to get his Green Card, and then changes employers, that three years is completely wasted.
An anonymous reader writes about how the law should change to protect American workers:
Employers should have to actually offer the job to qualified US citizens (at least 10% of all applicants after advertizing the position for 90 days, all applicants if less than 15 applications received) and have all offers declined. Then the H1B visa applicant should be compensated no more than what was offered the US citizens; but the employer should be required to contribute (non-tax-deductable)an amount equal to all compensation, benefits, and travel/living expenses provided to the H1B visa holder to a University in the US that offers a degree that would qualify the degree recipient for the job. This payment to the University should be constrained to paying tuition, books, and fees for US citizen upper division students pursuing a STEM batchelors degree.
Another anonymous reader, who claims to be on the way to getting a green card, talks about some realities faced (edited):
I've been legally in the United States for more than 12 years. My green card is more than 3 years away.
I agree that the system sucks for immigrants. Other than the fact that I don't have job mobility, I am very well paid (almost 200K). I wish i had the option to move if I needed to, but the options available are limited.
The thing is, I pay federal, state and local taxes, social security, unemployment premiums (which I can never collect on) and I'm a participant in the health programs that my employer offers.
All these are a net benefit to all US workers (and me -- sort of) and just perhaps, in eight years or so, I'll be allowed to take the citizenship test.
And on the fraud detection strategies employed by the feds, another anonymous reader writes:
I have about ZERO sympathy for these companies being audited and some being caught abusing the H-1B visas. This has been going on for 15 YEARS; about time someone checked up on them. Sad it takes a recession of this magnitude to move someone to stop abuses of what is nothing more than a cheap labor pool of indentured workers so US companies can continue to live here and benefit from our society while undermining the ability of US workers to make a living. We've let in over 200,000 of these H-1Bs in a single year in the past 15 years or so. England has a similar program (used to be call the "Skilled Migrant Worker Programme"; know how many they typically let in? About 1,000. That spells "SUCKER" for you and me, allowing in nearly a quarter of a million of these people to be:
1) Stuck with their sponsoring company for 6 years (no raises, no bonuses); if they leave they have to find a new company within X days, pay a fine and start their 6 year immigration clock over again.
2) Paid far less than the "prevailing wage" standard (which is itself far too loose as pay can range all over for a given IT job title). This IS the reason these visas are sought - cheaper labor.
As you can tell, the heat of the debate over foreign technology workers is complex, and I thank those readers who offer some real depth and open communication on the issues affecting everyone.
The blatant racial comments, however, really have no place in this debate. The program has its flaws and strengths, but race, in my estimation, is not really part of the equation. Anger at the program is warranted, but not at the people who are trying to do right by themselves and their families. |
Comments (12)
You quote your reader Vincenzo,
>>>> 1) Prevailing wage - this is a joke. There are large loopholes in this portion of the H-1B visa laws which allows employers to LEGALLY underpay H-1B beneficiaries. Moreover, it completely goes against the "free market" philosophy so many economists and corporate big-wigs love to parrot. Why not let the market dictate wages?
The prevailing wage is supposed to be a lower bound on the salaries offered, not an upper bound. The upper bound is dictated, as you suggest, by the market.
Another anonymous reader writes,
>>>> 1) Stuck with their sponsoring company for 6 years (no raises, no bonuses); if they leave they have to find a new company within X days, pay a fine and start their 6 year immigration clock over again.
Thats news to me, I have been working on an H1B with the same company for a little more than 4 years now, and have received more than a 30% increase in my basic salary, and about a similar number in (total) bonuses.
Posted by sks | August 19, 2009 7:58 PM
Everyone misses the point on H-1b.
That is, Discrimination Is Occurring On A Massive Scale Against Qualified US Citizens.
The Middle Class Has Been Destroyed.
Families Have Been Torn Apart.
The EEOC, the OFCCP, the DOJ-OSC Have Done Next To Nothing To Protect US Citizens Whose National Origin Is USA.
Immigration Law Firms Are Harming American Workers.
The H-1B Visa guest worker program has “RESERVED” millions of high-value jobs for citizens of foreign countries.
"Fake Job Ads” consistently and routinely DENY, DEPRIVE, EXCLUDE and DISCRIMINATE against United States Citizens during the hiring process.
Here is Cohen & Grigsby, a prominent immigration law firm (recommended by NAFSA), displaying their Good Faith Efforts To Recruit American Workers...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCbFEgFajGU
When companies have job openings, they "place an order" with job descriptions to third party recruiters like ManPower, Volt, Adecco, Robert Half, etc.
The job descriptions are not advertised publicly so that qualified US Citizens can apply.
This is a violation of EEO, the law of the land and the Civil Rights Act of 1967's "Unlawful Employment Practices'.
The available talent pool in the US workforce is being COMPLETELY BYPASSED
(and not just under-utilized).
Only mom & pop recruiting firms willing to $ub$cribe to the large third party firms services can see the job descriptions and then submit resumes from H-1bs…
Resume Blaster Streams $ubScribe to their service…
also a violation of EEO… segregating resumes by National Origin…
and it is all automated using information technology.
Out in the field, we are not seeing the job descriptions and
the most meritorious candidates are not receiving any job offers.
US Citizens and Green Card Holders never know the job openings even existed.
This is exclusion / discrimination.
Posted by Margaret | August 19, 2009 9:51 PM
"Anger at the program is warranted, but not at the people who are trying to do right by themselves and their families."
does that describe the Indian hiring manager in an all Indian IT shop?
Posted by Jim | August 20, 2009 12:34 PM
MEGABIG BROTHER IS HERE!! nice way to exercise more and more control over our lives. Mr. Obama is doing all the wrong things at the wrong time. This country is in a crisis of intelectuals. The deficient high school system doesn't prepare the kids to get into the great universities that we have. They ndo not have (the majority)a study ethics nor the level or rigor that most of the 1st world (and no so 1st!!)have. It's sad to see foreign students come to our universities and excell while our own are more concern about being sport stars and beer drinking competitions. After all taht said, we are trying to kick out or scare those that are here in high tech jobs. Those guys are not stupid. They are not south american harvest pickers and know what they are worth (or have the patience to prepare themselves for better). Do we need to do this? or it's just a act of brown nousing to the unions and the xenophobic crowd?
Posted by bill | August 22, 2009 11:13 AM
To sks:
You're completely missing the point of the loophole with the prevailing wage.
I'd like to offer a little anecdote regarding employers' ability to exploit foreign workers via the prevailing wage laws and the fact that H-1Bs cannot change employers without jeopardizing their Green Card application:
A gentleman named Vivek Wadhwa has long been a pioneer of change and innovation in the technology industry, and has founded 2 software companies, Seer Technologies and Relativity Technologies.
A check of the Dept. of Labor's H-1B Web page shows that Wahdwa's firm, Relativity Technologies, hired an H-1B Software Engineer for $44,144, and a Computer Programmer for $31,933.
Wahdwa believes that his hiring of the two H-1B programmers was justified on the grounds that they are brilliant people.
There is, however, the issue of how much to pay them. The one making $44K had a Master's degree and had been working part-time for Wadhwa in Russia for the previous three years. Moreover, at the time Wadhwa hired this worker, the guy had been working for a Russian government joint venture company in Russia, developing telephone and networking systems, which is sophisticated work. And yet as an H-1B he was being paid less than a Bachelor's graduate with no experience.
The reader's reaction to all this is probably, "Well, THAT must be illegal. The salary Wadhwa paid this H-1B didn't take into account the worker's Master's degree and his work experience." But that is a perfect example of the myriad loopholes in the law.
The key point is that under the law, prevailing wage is defined by the JOB, not by the WORKER. If the job just requires a Bachelor's degree, then an H-1B with a Master's can legally be paid a Bachelor's-level wage. What about this worker's experience? Doesn't that have to be taken into account? Well, first of all, the experience level DOL used at the time lumped everyone with 0-2 years of experience into one category, and this worker with three years of part-time and one year of full-time experience might fall into that category. But beyond that, again, keep in mind the prevailing wage is defined by the JOB, not by the WORKER. If this was an entry-level job, then the guy could legally be paid an entry-level salary.
Last but not least, what about the fact that the guy is supposedly brilliant? The guy got his Master's degree at the age of 16! (He was only 17 at the time Wahdwa hired him.) On the open market, that would command a premium salary. But remember, this ain't the open market. And there is nothing in the prevailing wage law about factoring in brilliance.
So, the bottom line is that Wadhwa got a brilliant worker with a Master's degree and the equivalent of something like two years of experience for the price of a Bachelor's graduate of average talent and no experience. And don't forget, that isn't even accounting wage savings an employer accrues by hiring H-1Bs--by hiring young H-1Bs, he avoids hiring the older, thus more expensive, Americans.
In other words, any way you slice it, Wadhwa got a great bargain--one that would have been impossible on the open market.
I'd also like to refer you to the following article:
The next wave of globalisation: Offshoring R&D to India and China
http://www.cio.co.uk/article/527/the-next-wave-of-globalisation-offshoring-rd-to-india-and-china/
From the link:
"Entrepreneur-turned-academic Vivek Wadhwa is up front about his use of offshoring and importing foreign talent in a previous professional life as founder and CEO of two technology companies. 'I was one of the first to outsource software development to Russia in the early '90s. I was one of the first to use H-1B visas to bring workers to the U.S.A.,' Wadhwa says. 'Why did I do that? Because it was cheaper.'"
Another interesting quote:
"That tactic is even more lucrative for corporations today, says Wadhwa: 'When you have a person on H-1B waiting for a green card, you have them captive for six to 10 years.'"
Posted by Vincenzo | August 25, 2009 9:14 AM
With unemployment at this level and SO many IT workers unemployed, you'd have a hard time convincing me that ANY h1Bs were required at ALL.
This scam has been going on too long and the ENTIRE h1B workforce should be audited and the companies violating any terms fined SEVERLY, and the violating workers thrown, head first, out of the country.
Posted by Joe | August 25, 2009 1:04 PM
This has nothing to do with xenophobia. Just like the Irish were ousted form the railroad jobs by bringing in Chinese, the higher paid American worker is ousted by bringing in Indians. It is completely, totally about wages. It has nothing to do with the failure to find qualifed American workers. If the industry is truly looking for "the best and the brightest" then why are 99% of H-1B positions filled by Indians? Simple. They accept less wages. Or do you think there's no one from England, Germany, Japan, Sweden, Norway, Canada, or a hundred other nations that can do computer work? Saying it's xenophobia means you have fallen hook, line and sinker for the industry's claim that they can't find Americans with the skills they need. I invite you to go to YouTube, where an immigration lawyer talks about how to avoid hiring an American while using the H-1B program. The H-1B program is a way for American industry to find willing indentured servasnts for less money. It is not about skill or talent. And the best Congress money can buy is doing nothing about it.
Posted by Another Bill | August 25, 2009 2:22 PM
Once again, where is the data? Those folks over at IBM have some degree of fresh and meaningful data. Share it. Do we have the right skill set in the laid off crowd? Did they divisions had been sliding on the money earning scale inside their company?Was there plans to shelve that particular divison. More importantly: IBM competes head to head with Dell and HP in some specific fields. Were they gaining on them? If you have the data, the proof not only one could possibly influence legislation,One could sue over this. ???
Posted by Coriantumr | August 25, 2009 2:31 PM
The US Government has an obligation to look after the best interests of those born here FIRST. They have not done so for YEARS because corporate America wants cheap labor at all skill levels from apple pickers to Artificial Intelligence developers. Corporate America has controlled Congress for years by what amounts to bribery (campaign contributions)so the individual citizen is ignored. What we need is term limits in Congress and an absolute prohibition on Corporate contributions to politicians. Then our representatives would be beholden to the individual citizens as opposed to Corporate America.
Posted by Hal | August 25, 2009 5:00 PM
I don't normally read tech journals, but this topic is relevant to me as an ESL instructor in an adult school setting, to my students, and to me as a soon-to-be college administrator. I'm incredibly sensitive to the negative impact unethical employment practices have on our economic system, our citizens, and honest workers who've gone through the required procedures to work in this country. Believe me, I teach undocumented individuals and care about them as people, but am accutely aware of the economic drain such indivudals have created.
It's my suspicion that the unannounced corporate raids by immigration are a tardy and pathetic backlash resulting from the government's failure to control illegal immigration. Simply put, there are just too many people entering this country, so immigration is delaying the issuance of green cards to legitimate workers and everyone else. By the way, why is an IT worker employed before obtaining the Green Card? That's not right. I have students with IT backgrounds who possess documentation and can't find a job. They'd work for the lower wages described because they're desperate for work. Why are legal immigrants blocked from working? They don't understand why, when they've played by the rules, that they can't find a job. The situation is highly unfair to U.S. citizens and documented workers from other countries.
Posted by An English as a second language instructor | August 25, 2009 5:12 PM
THE ANGER should be directed to the corporate bastards!(bitches too nowadays).
Like in the slavery days who doesnt want a worker who cannot run away, cannot complain, and doesnt have much rights???
Or think about it this way,in the slavery days would anyone employ a white guy to do the slaves job, even if he looks bigger , stronger? Of course not.
This is just the similar white coat tendecies passed on!
In this case,there are people from poorer countries willing to come here for H1B visa and work any number of hours as stipulated by thier masters! This is because the wages they earn are 10 times they can make in India. Also just like the slave is promised freedom eventually, the H1B is looking forward to the american dream for him and his wife, and also getting as much opportunities for his american born children!
I know this because I am from India,but before I began the process a white guy chased me his princess and I married him!
Now, its totally different!
Now , I would like to employ a illegal immigrant maid and nanny !
Its human character! But letting laws where one people can exploit others is worse human character!
Posted by White coat | September 12, 2009 2:31 PM
Great blog you got here. I'd like to read a bit more about that topic.
Posted by Marcus | October 29, 2009 1:25 AM