His translation of there isn't enough engineers in the states roughly means they don't want to pay for the engineers and they think they are too expensive and want to water down those high tech/high talent with third world countries overpopulation and sticking them in through a high tech boot camp to train them to bypass formal education expense.

Engineers here cost so much because of the education - go after lowering the education system and making it more efficient which is the source.

If he's running short he could hire some of the few thousand people he's fired this year.

For all the Microsoft's "brilliant" employees, I will take 10 employees from Apple or Google!

Ditto Mike. Poor leadership always deflects their inadequacies, failures, and slipping market share on everyone but themselves. I bet his compensation and stock plan doesn't reduce to the same level as the hacks they are trying to employ. What a legacy, take over a virtual monopoly and run it into the ground blaming everyone around you. All that is left in completing the IBM model is laying off the mid levels who refuse to go train them.

Ballmer is absolutely right. Let him sell his OS and tools in India and China for the price he is hiring the people to work for. Let him deal with the piracy and it will open his eyes. I agree with Mike that he wants cheap labor, not talent. May be Ballmer should out source Microsoft CEO job as well to India or Russia it will be very cheap.

Guys if you are reading this post, there is an alternative to Microsoft, Apple and/or Linux. These (Apple/Linux/Adobe) guys are not complaining that they are not finding talent in US, are they?

I am seriously ditching Microsoft and changing my laptops, computers, and tools to Apple or Linux in the next 6 months. Adios Microsoft.

I don't believe the technology CEOs when they claim there is not enough talent here. They don't want to hire the engineers we produce. I say this as a former technology educator in higher education. The high cost of college education and the failure of the public school system to better prepare prospective engineers deters many.

I agree with the (Mike's) previous comment. Perhaps the US should tie the R&D tax credit to the utilization of US educated engineers. Let's put the emphasis on increasing the pool by providing an incentive to train more here.

Well Folks! This is a preview of what happens when you let unskilled labor come in thousands without any control and refuse skilled labor to migrate! Sooner or later you will become a pool of lesser skilled labor.

In every major corporation in the U.S, more than 50% of the revenues come from outside the U.S. Many of the high paying jobs you have here now are still around because someone elsewhere is buying your product. You can bury your head in the sand or you can wake up and smell the coffee!

For every Microsoft job created in Vancouver instead of Seattle, there are 20 other jobs, coffee shops, supermarket, landscaping. roofing, plumbing, restaurant, goods, services jobs created in Vancouver instead of Seattle.

As long as you keep blaming every one of your ills on immigration and refuse to see the real problems you have, you will get poorer and poorer. Companies like Microsoft will set up offices elsewhere and make money. The losses are all yours!

R&D tax credits shouldn't be extended to companies that transfer intellectual property, developed with that US taxpayer money, to other countries.

Can't find enough talent? What a load of BS. As one of the many engineers that he laid off this year I can attest to the fact that this is a lie. We're in recession and unemployment is sky rocketing. Ballmer and CEOs like him should be ashamed of themselves for trying hire more offshore engineers in an effort to line their pockets while they get rid of their American workforce.

Microsoft is typical of what many USA-based companies have become - a non-American company. They have no national allegiance. While they have an incentive and a duty to their shareholders to be profitable, they also have a duty to the USA to behave in a manner that is advantageous to the USA as we compete (yes, compete, with the other nations of the world. It is not one world; nor is it likely to ever be so.

Microsoft is reaping the benefits of being a USA company without demonstrating any recognition of its obligations as a corporate citizen (of the USA - not of the world). Ballmer's, and before him Gate's, argument that there are not enough qualified American engineers is nonsense. Microsoft simply wants engineers who will work for a bowl of rice a day. In this they are no different than many other product development companies.

It is very apparent to those of us who are independent contractors. We used to be asked about our experience and skill sets. Now the first question we hear is "Will you work for one half the Y2000 rate?". It is likely apparent to those who are W2 employees even though their screening process is somewhat different.

This is crippling America. You can't have the money trickle down if you are replacing the top earners with slave labor. Government interventing is required to fix this. The intervention must be to stop interfering with the marketplace by allowing these aliens to steal American jobs. Their is no option. To fail to do so will destroy our technical dominance of this planet within a generation. Or perhaps this is the intent of one-worlders like Gates and Ballmer.

So Mr. Ballmer, if what you say is true, why did you lay off tens of thousands of U.S. based employees?

If we want to pay our own people what they deserve, and we should, then to compete globally what we do need is a low-cost business eco-system with low corporate tax structure and suitable tax breaks: Not only subsidize R&D activity in general, but also give tax breaks for new inventions, innovations, exports, jobs retained, jobs sustained, jobs created, ... otherwise the axe will always fall on simple headcount and labor arbitrage. Our policies need a new mind-set.

I think some of the audience needs a lesson on how to interpret an article.

The report's question is why is the MS R&D facility in Canada instead of USA? The answer was simple, Canada has reliable R&D tax incentives and USA does not. What's funny is that the reporter decided to turn Ballmer's answer into an analysis of MS H1-B visa numbers.

Ballmer was pointing out that he would rather support local US economy by building and hiring in US and spur associated local economy but that would be a bad business decision due to more favorable tax condition in Canada. His argument is further strengthened by the proximity of the Vancouver R&D facility to Redwood.

He made the proper business decision. This is not about H1-B numbers since MS is already maximizing those numbers in other USA facilities.

I am disappointed in how quickly companies are willing to abandon local employess talented or not. Part of rebuilding our economy will be dependent on rebuilding our workforce. I would rather train people and make a difference in my world than only hire one individual who we become so dependent on that they can destroy a single company by mistake or intent. That does not mean I don't want to hire talented people but I believ in growing talent. Growing skill is not always the cheap way to do it but sometimes it is the right way. It is like the old idea that you can give a man a single fish and he has a meal or you can teach him how to fish and he becomes self sufficient, the better choice but not the easy one.
Lets try to employ and grow local talent and help take care of people not just bottom lines.

Why does he not assign some of these "brilliant" minds to the help desk?

I think immigration is good, bring in talented people to build up the skills in the US; unfortunately, that is not what H1B visa's are. They are temporary so the people must return home with the skills learned in the US.

Ballmer is playing the game... And the government is complicit in failing to manage the national issue of lost employment. That IBM was able to say "move to india and we will hire you" is the obvious indicator, and should be criminal. Let the cost of hiring from overseas go thru the roof... because we have the talent here and CEOs are simply acting on price. We created the technology and most practitioners are not near retiring... State universities should overcharge even more for overseas tuition. The bias must be toward citizen employment and fixing the education system... not bending over for corporate america. We will only recover our technological lead by getting local citizens working and getting youth interested in tech again - by getting the job market back for citizens! The government has a duty to the people, its actual constituents... pretending that lobbyists and corporations are voters is abdication. In this new economy, government needs to ACT NOW... before our tax base and prosperity disappears into the global void. We do not need to become a has-been country... and policy can slow the pace of movement and preserve our future. Write your congressman!

No doubt we also need ot fix the lesser-skilled immigration issue; Already we are figuring out that almost any job is better than no job... The burden on the schools, on medical care, and other infrastructure easily overrides the need for social security funding. That system is held up by tissue paper and we need to let it crash... The difficult bite here needs to be taken - we can not keep looking the other way on bad policy and implementation as our economy and workforce takes a beating.

For years now I have personally moved away from as many Microsoft Products as possible. We run Redhat Servers, Ubuntu on Desktops, Laptops, and Netbooks, and a few MacOS instances. Unfortunately, there are a few app vendors that have not yet gone away from a purely Windows implementation, so I have a few Windows VMs to handle those few apps. So, for the most part it is possible to move away from Windows.

I applaud Bill Gates for his philantrophy, but, I have always felt that Microsoft has done a poor job with quality control, outsourced more "low-cost" labor, and ignored a huge talent pool of Engineers here in the U.S. And for all that, we get overpriced, bloated products with features that we do not need, or want. Or, worse yet, you have to upgrade to a re-skinned OS or Office Product that takes time to retrain and retool employees.

As a native of Vancouver with 25 years in IT, I can tell you that our wonderful "open" policy that Ballmer is enjoying has had its effect: people like me get bounced out of jobs all the time by foreigners who will take $12.00 an hour because their real pay is their eventual citizenship in Canada, along with passports for their moms, dads, and siblings, and the free medical care they get when they're here.

It's a great deal with a total lifetime value of $500,000, according to researchers. I recently had a potential employer tell me that I was the first Canadian they'd considered for a job in ten years.

They hired a Romanian.

Welcome to the race to the bottom.

Change the tax credit so that they receive credit for hiring Americans and you'll see him beating a different drum. The talent exists here, they just don't want to pay for it.

Mike has it wrong. They are not looking for cheap engineers. They are looking for people up to the task. The US education system is not as good as you think. (just look at the numbers of forigen Engineers in Boeing, Lockheed etc)

The anti-immigration bell has been rung for well over 150 years, and it usually has more than a tinge of "those dirty _______s" (content dependent on the times).

The US has made a great deal of money from taking the world's best and brightest. We need to make it easier for worker immigration, while doing a better job keeping out criminals (e.g., Mexican drug gangs now terrorizing Phoenix). It will overall increase America's employment and bring in much needed young, legal workers making good salaries into the Social Security system. The US immigration policies are as stupid as its taxation policies on expatriates: it makes people happy but it actually reduces America's ability to compete and defend herself.

To all the people who are crying in the name of foreign labor etc. they must understand that Microsoft is a private enterprise. Their 'only' goal is to make money. if they are interested in cheap labor and not the talent, it's their choice to pick between the two. They'll do whatever makes more sense in business, if US will not give them opportunity they'll not hesitate to move to somalia, but who are we to blame him ??

Ballmer is wrong, wrong, wrong. Several good points have been mentioned in the comments so far. To amplify and add to these:

- Cost matters more than talent; if the decision-makers valued talent + really implementing and understanding the requirements within the culture, they would not be going to third world countries. They'd understand that productivity, quality, and time to market can only be achieved through American/Canadian (born) talent. I speak from extensive experience. (How many companies have gone third world and then found out the hard way that culture and experience are key ingredients tp productivity and life cycle cost? They have moved the development back to North America.)
- Ageism is alive and well in the IT culture. There are more than enough seasoned and pre-seasoned citizens who are experienced and bright to fill any need, but the decision-makers have a thought paradigm that does not allow consideration of older people- they automatically assume they cost too much, again, not considering quality, meeting requirements, and time to market as overriding the cost.
- There are three decisions in hiring, minimum competence, cost, and cost. That is why product deliveries today are routinely late, over budget, and of poor quality. After all, who gets rewarded on a 3-5 year plan?

Bottom line: hire older people and life cycle costs will go down! They are all in America and Canada, there are more than enough, and thus no need to go third world. And they aren't all that expensive over the life cycle.

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer: "It's a bit goofy," he said, "because for every person we hire to be an engineer, there's probably another four or five people who we employ at Microsoft. There's another set of people employed in the community in construction and housing and retail, a bunch of different industries."

The only entities of benefit regarding H1B Visas are three in number - Steve Ballmer, Microsoft, and the individual with the Visa. Such hyperbole and self agrandizing is stench inducing and repulsive. It is not as if 'another set of people' get jobs for each Micrsoft sponsered Visa far from it. In addition, I'm sure U.S. citizen engineers, given the proper incentives and encouragement, could build Microsoft products which are at least as buggy and virus vulnerable as those of H1-B engineers.

Ballmer is ungrateful to America and it's citizens even though Microsoft got rich because of Americans.
Let's take globalist logic as far as it goes. The population of India alone is around 1.2 billion, and there are plenty of other nations whose citizens would love to come take and jobs here or else have our work shipped over to them. The US population is only around 300 million. Since they don't come burdened with our mortgages, rents, student loans, and other bills, the vast majority of foreign workers would be delighted to take a significantly lower wage than what we need to live comfortably here. Theoretically, every single American worker, present and future, could be replaced with a willing foreign worker. Think how much money that would save. Not just the tech workers. The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker. The cop, the handyman, the lawn guy, the teacher, the plumber. They have blue collar workers too. What if every single one of us got our walking papers? What would America be like then? For us? Welfare benefits have a tight lifetime cap. Savings? Home equity? What would you live on if every single time you thought of a plan to earn, a foreigner was right there, johnny-on-the-spot, to take your place? In the tech field, in some areas, this is already happening. Better get active and do something about this, unless you trust the third world to show restraint and stop wanting our jobs.

It is very simple:

If I owned Microsoft stock, I'd want Ballmer to find the best (read: ample to the task) talent for the cheapest price and kick Google and Apple where it hurts. Whether in "cheap" Vancouver or any other third world countries (is British Columbia really that bad? - Whistler was not as cheap as it would seem from the comments last time I was there...).

I wouldn't care about anyone's elses opinions. Turkish, French or even American.

Immigration does cause recession and unemployment. Every immigration wave since 1900 has caused recession. 1906-1920 caused the Great Depression. 1965 Immigration Act caused the 1973-1982 disaster. 1990 H-1B was started, recession in 1991-1993. 1998-2000 H-1B was increased into the millions including L-1. USA was flooded with at least 4,000,000 workers from India. It's not "a few thousand" it's a few million. And yes, we got poorer and poorer during that time as foreign workers from India remit over $40 billion a year from USA to India. America gets poorer when it opens, not when it closes. Now we are seeing the real effects of that huge influx from 1998-2003. And the U.S. econ is a DISASTER. It's impossible to say immigration doesn't cause recession. And just look at the fate of all these companies that hire foreign labor for IT. MS's stock used to be $100. Now it's $23. Apple CLOSED all their R&D in India in 2006 an they employ mostly American labor. Apple's stock is now around $130. Not to mention GE, Lehman, Merrill, Sun, PeopleSoft, Quark, Bell Labs all outsourced to India, Inc. and they are now dying. Connect the dots. It's not hard to see.

"It will overall increase America's employment and bring in much needed young, legal workers"

You are aware that age discrimination is illegal in the USA, aren't you?

BULLSHI$%$ what a lie, so employ me Microsoft, you wont because I have a 100K student loan and want to get paid a decent wage to pay for school, these un EDUCATED, idiots overseas are willing to work like a slave in a little core at your company for 10 bucks because THEY HAVE NO EDUCATION TO PAY FOR!! STEVE YOU ARE A MAJOR IDIOT, TYPICAL lets try and build something with no quality and do it for 10 bucks, I HATE YOU!!! GIVE ME A JOB AND MAYBE I WILL CHANGE MY MIND,,JERK!

OH by the way I will continue to not pay for your stuff, neither will my friends f'you

When I read the comments on stories like this, I realize that myth of H1-B worker = low wage worker continues. By law, companies are required to pay prevailing wages to every H1-B hire. They have to provide the proof to government for that. I started as an H1-B worker in early nineties. I was paid fairly well. Before I got my permanent residency or citizenship, I was earning in mid six figures due to my talent, skills and desire to work hard.

On point of "No shortage" of american workers, even in this economy when we have openings, none of the Americans even bother to apply for the jobs. All resumes coming across my desk are from foreigners or forign born US residents/citizens. So there is a shortage of Amercian workers necessiating immigrant workers. Ocassionally we have an AMerican apply for job and when we interview them, either their skill levels are vastly inferior to other applicants, or they want north of six figure salary for a software developer job. In which rational world a company will pay that kind of money when median salary for all jobs in US is around $55,000.

Go and ask your counterparts in auto industry in terms of what happens when you refuse to let new talent come in and infuse some fresh ideas. Eventually it leads to job losses in this country and jobs being migrated to other countries rather than people migrating to this country and boosting economy here.

Simply put, guys, it is a race to the bottom for low wages.

The countries that maintain the greatest human rights abuses will have the "hungriest" workers who will work the hardest for the least pay.

All of the lip service from people like Obama and Ballmer is just that - a weak excuse to keep status quo; talking points. They don't care that you and I know that they are lying about our "skills", as long as the lie pacifies enough people.

Bottom line is that the America we grew up in is gone. The "deal" our parents had is gone. the multinational corporations have found greener pastures for labor with more desperate people. Whine as you might, but we now have to compete with abject poverty and the only way to equalize things is to join their ranks in poverty, then we will appreciate what crumbs of our former culture they allow us to participate in, that is if Ballmer is not to busy vacationing on his oceanliner.

Good thing Ballmer isn't related to Pinnochio. How disinguous of him to make those false statements. The law allows US employers to pay H1B visa holders less than US workers. He fails t mention that tidbit. Second, the labor arbitrage with Canada makes a center there very attractive from a labor cost standpoint. Finally, the comment about needing 5 other employees to support each H1B employee is patently false, and has been proven as such in numerous studies. I also agree with another comment made above that if they are so desparate to hire people, rehire some of the thousands they laid off in the last 12 months.

Low balled engineering. And that's why Micro$oft is so innovativ... er... no..that would be Google, Apple, Linux, and now HP: they find and invest in 1st world talent. Like where computers actually existed for a while, and where there are paved roads with.. with... cars rather than water buffalo. You know, the country that actually invented things during the last century. Low balled engineering yields low balled innovation: best that the 16th century can devise. As the saying goes: Little invested; little interest. Watch out Canada, gardeners, plumbers, and cafe servers, house boys, maids, et al. are easy to come by. Every country has those. Creative engineers? That's a different story.

The most interesting thing to me is that they are in fact not even offering the jobs to citizens first; They simply skip that step - The interview process, when it happens, won't even entertain the idea that MAYBE some US workers are willing to work at a competitive wage, versus y2000 wages. I was passed over on one position, where initially they were completely enamoured; No new discussions had taken place - they rang the phone as soon as they got my IQ test scores - then the job went elsewhere, without any discussion of wages or further steps of any kind, to younger non-citizens. It was implicit(?) that I would not take an offer - when I had a mortgage, a great desire to be employed with this specific company, and years more experience. Hello!?! Non-communication passes for due diligence in the hiring process? (My references and such were all solid.)

I beleive the following things that Ballmer said:

"It's a bit goofy," because you'd say that too if you were trying to sell the song and dance that they've got to hire foriegn.

And "I don't care whether they're American-born or Indian-born or Russian-born. I want to pay them to work in the U.S. "
Just add: I don't want to pay them U.S. wages to work in the U.S.

And I don't believe the line saying;
But Microsoft will locate the job in India, or Canada or wherever it can get the best talent.

It should read;
But Microsoft will locate the job in India, or Canada or wherever it can get the best price.

Ever try calling Microsoft tech support for I.E. 8? Straight to India’s “Best and Brightest”, who have to run out to the tribal witch doctor for a consult for each question asked.

How does unskilled, possibly child labor, become a country’s “Best and Brightest?” Cut the doublespeak please: “Best and Brightest”=cheap labor.

The only thing “Best and Brightest” about these governments is their ability to make a buck—at the expense of American workers.

Face it, there’s plenty ‘o talent in the U.S. (we are the country of origin for that abomination that brought the world DOS), and—this is anathema to our own magical thinking—the USA has LIMITED resources (i.e. a limited numbers of jobs); we can’t welcome every person knocking on our door.

Forgive my seeming Marxist leanings: The bottom line is that Balmer just wants to reduce costs. It is obscene for a multi-billion dollar-a-year corporation to do this: Put American’s on unemployment (or worse, yes there is worse) so executives at Microsoft can have 400 room mansions instead of 200 room ones.

Ballmer is doing his fiduciary duty for Microsoft. Change the rules for greed and politics and Microsoft will hire more US developers and engineers.

The truth is though, most are only interested in their stock price moving up, which means since its a recession, that MS has to cut costs. Payroll is the biggest cost they have. The cost of a developer from India, even if brought to Canada or the US, is still much less than the cost of the US developer by more than 2 to 1 ratio to be exact. I know this simply because I help another high tech company outsource and I am pushed very hard to move the work offshore.

To Anonymous above, yes the reporter turned it around, but Ballmer brought hiring foreign workers up as the main reason and frankly it probably was.

And as a postscript. I work with many foreign born developers and engineers. They are every bit as good as US born developers and engineers (NOT BETTER, JUST AS GOOD). They simply have the language barrier problem. They work hard and are treated badly by these companies, eventually we'll either all equalize to a lower standard of living or the price will go up and MS and other companies like them will move their offshoring to Vietnam, Thailand and China (which is already starting)

It would be nice if all these companies who can not find competent workers in the US would submit to an audit process.

That will never happen because MS needs as many scape goats as it can find. This is just one of many.

I happen to oppose protectionism, support freer movement of labor internationally, and remain very impressed with most of the American public education system.

I am also one of the 1,000,000 people in IT laid off in 2001. Six years later, with 160,000 H1-B visas annually, IT employment had regained the 2001 level. Obviously, most of us who were laid off had to find work elsewhere. For me, it has been as a teacher in the US, Korea, and China, at a fraction of my old salary. It was an unexpected jolt, resulting in losing my house and retirement, but - fortunately - not my health.

Despite my multiple degrees, experience, health, integrity, and commitment, American "executives" have no use for people like me. They continue to confuse "cost effectiveness" with "cost." "Re-Training" and employee feedback are just "dirty words" to them.

In the 1930s, Berle & Means told of the consequences of the separation of ownership and management. Basically, management could reap the benefits without suffering the consequences of their actions. "Deja vu all over again."

The one good thing I can see is that as other countries grow, the differences between their living standards and ours diminish... and so do the "inferiority complexes" that lead to war.

I remain both frustrated and optimistic.

Jon Cris Miller

I sincerely wish the worst possible disease on Ballmer's family. I curse him and his predecesor. I expect Windows7 to be as bad as Vista when in general release; because of the Indian developers. This type of developer also wrote the 'fly-by-wire' software used on the french airliner that disintegrated in mid-air and is developing the same software for the 'dreamliner' that keeps getting delayed. Even with their 'cheap' crap attitude, their stock sucks compared to Google etc.

All of you anti-H1 complainers continuously miss the point; it's better to have the job in America than off-shore.

The jobs in Canada are convenient for Microsoft because they are close to Seattle and aren't hampered by the idiotic immigration issues that plague the US.

Canada has a point system for immigrants. Different jobs are more desirable at different times so the points move appropriately.

The arbitrary system in the US is frustrating for everyone -- especially those who play by the rules.

Hi,

The problem is with US Dollar's buying power. By paying 35$/hr, MS can hire the best and brightest from India. Have you guys heard about IITs? There are folks who could not get admission in ITT who got into MIT. Most of the American Engineers are of foreign origin. Please visit Computer science or electrical engineering departments of any good school. Notice who is studying MS/Phd. India has a vast pool of educated, very bright young people who are available for a song, thanks to the mighty green back. US is at a disadvantage due to high cost of health care, high tax rates and aging population.
Go and check how many American born people are working for Google/Apple/Silicon Valley cos or their off shore R&D centers.

Hi,
Many of you are silly to think that 6000 H1Bs brings in unemployment in US!! And we in India and the world are sipping Pepsi,driving Fords and buying Dell - as if better alternatives are not available! It is a globalized world now, whether you like it or not.

First clean up your low quality school education system( your universities are excellent), the drug lords, reduce your military industrial complex and the screwed up financial and insurance system.

And about immigration..well.. ask the Cherokees and Iroquois about that?They will give you an earful!

So far as Steve Ballmar is concerned, the following Italian expression sums it up: Il pesce puzza della testa. i.e., the fish rots from the head. Microsoft is full of rot.

I have worked with H1B workers for years with some of the largest American and foreign companies in this country (GE, CISCO, SIEMENS, CSC ). I'm an electrical engineer, with a MS in Computer Science and 30 years experience. I'm trying to make it on my own now having been laid off by a number of these companies.

We are reaping what we sowed. The bottom line profit was always the most important. We finally are waking up to the fact that we can not just "buy" from someone else who has a lower price and get work from countries with lower wages without everntually being at that same economic level as those countries.

There is no shortage of engineering talent ....

There are good/bad H1B workers like any worker but I have witnessed politics of cost savings and these workers protected each other and their knowledge while grabbing our dollar.

We are selling out our manufacturing. We have not protected our own manufacturing companies and their interests. What is made in the USA?

Microsoft is a least an American company, but they are falling like everyone else and using illogical reasons like hiring foreign workers to create more jobs?

Our country is broke, our companies are bankrupt, I'm holding on (like many) by a thread .. wondering If I should learn Chinese.

Hey all you Apple lovers: please be aware that Microsoft makes more money per MacIntosh than it does per PC because of the premium it can charge on Office (and the higher attach rate of Office on Macs than on PCs)

Stop thinking of Microsoft as an anti-American dinosaur. It out-innovates Linux, out-markets Apple, and out-invests Google; sometimes winning and sometimes losing.

Hey all you Apple lovers: please be aware that Microsoft makes more money per MacIntosh than it does per PC because of the premium it can charge on Office (and the higher attach rate of Office on Macs than on PCs)

Stop thinking of Microsoft as an anti-American dinosaur. It out-innovates Linux, out-markets Apple, and out-invests Google; sometimes winning and sometimes losing.

This just another ploy to hold down salaries. We should never listen to a CEO when deciding what is, at its core, a labor issue. Whatever the CEO wants with regard to labor, the workers should not want.

Microsoft is merely obtain the talent elsewhere due to a lack of talent in the US.

Narayan,

You are talking a bunch of nonsense!!! The only reason a lot of folks from India our talking this baseless garbage is that now things are global. Well guess what? When you guys become too expensive, the godd ole corporations, will stop using you and head to the next pool of cheap labor!!!!

Microsoft recently laid EVERY American engineer at their Boulder CO office a few weeks ago, while hiring Indian and Chinese up to and including the day of the American purge.

Ballmer should be in jail.

I am Portuguese and came to USA to fix problems that American engineers created. Several Attorney offices and Insurance companies suffered huge losses because of Americans not willing to go the extra mile. If you like what you do and are honest you study everyday and serve well.
I am paid more than those engineers! Why do you all complain and criticise?
It is wrong that overseas workers are paid less! I am tired of reading about this! I always got paid much more because I know what I am doing and I am not complaining all the time. It has to do with education and respect towards others.
A corporation like Microsoft cannot loose business with workers that are always complaining and going to the Dr because on nail hurts. Overseas workers end up with better salaries because they work! Don't come up with a bunch of lies to justify your failures! I learned to love this country and have wonderful friends in here but some Americans like to provoke hate because they don't know what more to do. Sad.....

This is consistent with what I heard from Microsoft at an H-1B conference at UCLA earlier this year. Canada, unlike the US, actually has an immigration policy. And, this policy will allow high-technology folks to enter their Country as long as there isn't a negative impact to their workforce. Unfortunately, we have the TN Visa program that allows unfettered movement between Canada and the US which allows Microsoft unlimited (other than by Canada which doesn't really care if the folks are ultimately working in the US) access to 'newly minted Canadian citizens'.

The next step is that the US employer of the TN Visa person will apply for H-1Bs for those that they wish to keep. This is because a person here under a TN Visa cannot seek residency but someone under an H-1B can. If the H-1B isn't granted this year, no problem; the employer will simply keep the person on under the TN until an H-1B is eventually approved. After the H-1B is approved, the person may be offered permanent residence.

The net effect is to diminish the wages paid through de-limiting of the supply. All of which is at the control of Corporate America WITHOUT the input of US Citizens!

All of the negative comments about the H1-B workers are due to jealousy; the United States educational system is very poor as compared with other countries. An independent analysis conducted by the G7 (of which the US is member) listed the US outside of the top ten countries for education. Canada, India, Germany, China, and Japan were all in the top five.

Consider the fact that school is out the first week of June in the United States but is not finished until the end of June in Canada. This leaves 3 weeks less education in the US per year, which is 36 weeks (9 months), another year of school in the K-12 system.

Also, consider the fact the US INS considers a 3 year Canadian Bachelor's Degree equivalent to a US 4 year Bachelor's degree. Hence, it would seem that Canadians learn the same amount of material in 3 years, one year less than it takes US students.

Further, by law, a company must advertise the position held by an H1-B worker to ensure there is no US citizen who can do the same job. If the H1-B worker is able to stay, it is due to their credentials and education, as compared to the US employee who may be let go.

The moral of the story is that foreign workers are better educated, so why not let them have a shot at a career? Moreover, with an office in Canada, Microsoft is able to obtain educated talent without the H1-B process hindering them from obtaining the talent that does not reside in the US.

If Americans would only do their research and think before opening their mouth (or typing comments) then the US wouldn't be viewed so poorly by the rest of the world. It would seem that arrogance and incompetency go together in the US.

Wow. The racist and ignorant comments. A lot of people have made points without providing facts to support their observations (supporting evidence provided in comments above). Microsoft and other tech companies have been asking for years for increased visas for tech workers. This was true in 2002 when I was an IT student at the university and still true in 2007 and 2008. In 2008 MSFT hired 1037 H-1B visa holders, the highest among US companies. The Seattle Times reported in April that in 2009 that MSFT and other tech companies were requesting fewer visas. This article states that MSFT employs over 30,000 outside the country. It isn't such a far stretch to imagine that 3% of those people could be more qualified and more deserving than some of the people who have responded to this article. MSFT is trying to hire the best people available, regardless of their race, or country of origin; an ideal this country is based upon.

History
1993 - Microsoft employee misclassification class action case
2000 - High tech industry leaders including Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates, supported quick passage of pending legislation to raise visa limits. Gates and his colleagues told the Committee how "the H-1B visa limit is used up quickly" and that companies across the country are forced to look outside the U.S. for highly skilled workers, particularly in the information technology field.

Folks, soon it will not matter anyway. All Americans will all be working for the Chinese. Brush up on your Mandarin and good old boys like Ballmer and Gates will be bowing to the masters in Beijing. BillG will be exchanging his billions for Yen and even he will need to find a job. All the old Yankee Imperialists programmers will be trying to find jobs on China’s railroads and it will be payback time. What a shame for the Great American dream to crumble so quickly due to the greed by a few corrupt corporate dictators.

The statement that they can't find local talent in the United States is just absolutely full of crap!

There's a prevailing wage for H1B, or any immigrant looking for an employment base visa.

So, even if Microsoft wanted to pay them less, they cannot do so legally. I hardly believe Microsoft would put their company at risk by paying cheaper labor than the standard set by the Department of Labor. Its like paying someone less than minimum wage. Risk too high for a public trading company.

If engineers pay is out of argument, his premise is valid. Why is there a cap of 15% for foreign talent in his company. For USCIS, they categorize company over 15% of non native labor force to be H1B dependent. I believe in cases where it's labor intensive industry the cap has a valid stand, but for R&D intensive industry, it is in the interest of the shareholder, and the company to seek the best talent, regardless of their nationality.

But I disagree on Ballmer's claim of no talent in the U.S. Alot of the "talent" he seek are U.S educated, the person sitting next to that talent maybe more, less, or equally as talented.

Wow wow wow! The comments posted here are downright disgusting and racist. The bunch of you guys are clearly not looking in the mirror. Instead just blaming Balmer, US Immigration policies, R&E policy and what not for the job loss that you suffered! Spend some time alone introspecting yourself. If an immigrant can work for 12USD then why can't you? If he can work for 16 hours a day, why can't you? Remember that US was and is being built up by immigrants. If they all leave in masses, it would only be a stupid bunch of jokers left around driving their gas guzzling SUVs.

It is just a rabid outlook to blame everything on others to suit your own needs. Sorry for being blunt but I am just showing the mirror. And NO, I am not a US immigrant.

it does not mater how many imported engineers you have now, if the average level of education continues to sink with the same rate as it happens today, in a few years the level of living standard will follow it and all these imported engineers will leave for better living conditions, and we will get stuck with lawyers and bureaucrats and the highest rate of incarcerated people of the whole world,

The basic issue is money and profits for companies. I have worked in HR and recruiting for large companies for about 20 yrs.

For large and medium companies, H1B workers are mostly working for them as contractors/sub-contractors through small comp/agencies.

From the view of these large companies, contracts are easy way out. Giving about $100 per hour (or nowadays less) would be easier for hire/fire whenever they want and get the job done. They dont give shit as to who fills that order.(h1B or citizens) really. If it were H1B workers, You will be suprised that after their agencies taking their cut, they get only about 50% only. But that still is good amount(80-100k). For citizens/Greencard holders(1099/W2) who are contractors, they are getting huge money. Frankly I have seen very less citizens with experience in some of the new demanding skills in market.Hence this contract business is 70% holded by H1B skilled workers.

A full time employee is just not cost efficient for companies nowadays. Not only is that skill set insufficient, they need to train these employees, adding additional costs with basic perks etc, together with employment contract issues etc for layoffs (Laws, labor unions, laywers ready to sue)...etc. The hiring cost would be 60+40~=$100 along with added risk.

The best and cheapest way is to outsource, so that $100/hr can now be brought with This usally traslates to -- Most work to be sent abroad, except a few High level workers employed in US (H1B and L1 Visa). Usually they prefer to get H1 rather than L1 due to various restrictions with L1. But if we see overall picture, about 50% of all H1 applications (65,000/yr) is taken by these outsourced companies. So their H1 is somehow different. Out of the $40, They are getting about 25$ hr here + their salaries abroad untill the project finishes.
This is not good.

So here is the pref for hiring ->
Outsource > Contractors(citizens/H1B)> Full time.

The main law changes have to be STOP OUTSOURCING.
THAT IS THE KEY. I can bet that Current H1B workers employed in US would be in fact fighting the same as US workers for wages againest L1/H1B/outsourced workers by large outsourcing companies.

Once again the corporate pirates strike and they want us to think its our fault. What a crock this is another AIG scam cooked up by people more concerned with the almighty dollar than they are with anything else. I work with people incapable of communicating the most simple ideas in English but they are so talented? Give me a break! Once and for all corporate Executives, managers, and stockholders need to admit their bottom line, their profit margin means more to them than quality, innovation, insuring that America has a future, people's life savings, jobs, or anything else that WOULD TRULY INSURE THE SURVIVAL AND PROSPERITY OF OUR CHILDREN AND THEIR CHILDREN.

Let's see, am I going to listen to a bunch of (apparently unemployed) people on a message board tell us what we should do to keep jobs from crossing borders, or will I listen to Steve Ballmer? Guess.

Whatever MS's true reasons are, the net result is the same. It is better for the company to open their new plant in Canada.

Let us begin by saying that MS is perfectly in their rights to do so, (and really, if they are going to open elsewhere, Canada is almost the US anyways), and I am sure that every other country in the world was thrilled that MS decided to locate somewhere other than the US. It showed the company to be multinational instead of "another American company" seeking to pilage the third world. In case you haven't heard, America isn't very popular around the globe right now.

The only group of consumers that will be irritated by this are the Americans, and that is an insufficient economic base to sustain the likes of Microsoft, so it could just be a PR move on MS's part.

So, perhaps we should look at ways to make moving your company seem like a less attractive idea.

We claim that we want a free market and open access to other markets, but the reality is that Americans can't compete there.

We bitch because MS claims that the American workforce is not the best and smartest, yet we make no attempts to increase our educational system.

If Americans aren't smart enough to work at an American company, then perhaps we should look at the failures of the educational system, not the failures of the individual company.

In addition, maybe we should read between the lines to see what Ballmer really wanted to say. The workers do a better job, are better educated, less wasteful, more efficient and dedicated to their jobs, don't demand all the perks and benefits, maternity and paternity leave, a zillion breaks, sick leave, vacation pay, pay to watch their 3 year old sing at her music recital, etc.. And on top of it all, they will do all this work without complaining for a significant pay cut.

The question quickly becomes, not why are they hiring foreigners, but rather, why are they hiring Americans?

I got a simple solution for the american CEOs. H1B visas for foregin CEOs to replace the american CEOs of these large corportions. Let see how the shoe fits on the other foot.