The program is both good and bad. I personally would like to be a product of it one day. I see the US as a likely place go work and live one day. (Disclosure: I am from the Caribbean island of Jamaica W.I.). But, these abuses and with the illegal immigrants from my country who already abused their privilege by running off, makes it harder for people like me who want to go the legitimate route someday. But when I look into things like this H-1B racketeering, I see a major problem in areas like diversity. Why are the majority of workers coming from India? What about about other parts of Asia, Europe and even the Caribbean? We have people here who are willing to work hard and show value to the American economy and society.

All foreign workers should be banned till the US workforce are properly in place.

Meaning only red indians should be allowed to work in America??? Because they are the only native americans ;)

Better to have workers here than relocating all to India or China.

Meaning those who are already citizens should get a better chance at these jobs instead of being designated as "overqualified", meaning too old, etc.

Thats brilliant!

Or it may mean that US citizens should be employed before cheap foreign labor.....

With the reduction of jobs for our own IT workers, I believe this program should be put on hold for 2 years to track if it really is beneficial.

I believe we would have the workers needed in all areas if employers would just be willing to pay for the additional training they may be looking for to fill a job.

This has always been a problem, as there does not seem to be much oversight until the abuse becomes obvious!

I'm guessing the penalties are not sufficiently high to thwart the 'criminal' elements that are exploiting the system. Penalties, like lifetime banishment from use of the program, financial penalties for actual persons committing the fraud within an orgnanization and other such, call them draconian measures if you will, would probably provide significant impetus to a self-cleaning.

Even the Indians came over from Asia. No one is truly native to this country.

SAM,

I am not sure whether you made that statement just for fun, but if you are serious, I will not be able to stop laughing at it.

The US Economy will surely hit ground, if all the H1B Workers are banned in the current situations. The reason is most of the american companies atleast for about 20-30% depend on Indian work force. There is no substitute for it.

The question is, why are all companies having so many people on Bench. Why US is approving so many H1B's if there are so many consultants on Bench.

The only way to avoid people to be on Bench on not being paid is, US should hold on approving more and more H1B's and should do a thourough Ad-Hoc Scrutinisation process. This would atleast help the candidates who are bench to get into the jobs and avoid companies putting so many consultants on bench.

Once this is done, then US can decide whether to approve more H1B's or altogether BAN it. Once the H1B's are stopped, US should also concentrate on retaining the current work force by approving their GC's as quickly as possible. These H1B's should be used like toilet papers for 6 Yrs and then thrown out of USA.

H1 workers are essential to supplement the workforce in United States. Here is some of the reforms which Govt. can implement.

1. Filling of H1 only by a business directly which needs the consulting help and not allowing the Middleman Software consulting companies to file for the H1 Visa.

2. Currently there are L1 visa's which are more misused than H1B visa. For L1 visa, Software consulting companies have to not even worry about paying the workers equivalent US wage. Govt. should watch the number of L1's given to the Software consulting companies. The simple fix could be that if only one L1 should be allowed for 20 active H1b positions.

3. Govt. should allow only one H1B visa per SSN (Candidate). Step Number one will have a large impact on this problem.

80% of H-1 petition from India is just WRONG, but the propose of H-1 program is not.

While US consumer demanding lower cost goods, company has to find its way to reduce its cost, these costs reduction will have to come from either production or R&D; and we have seem many production been move to China or other countries where cost of making them is lower than US. Unfortunately, as "we" (who live in the states) are demanding higher pay, better benefit and lower cost good...there are something just don't match here, perhaps we are the one causing all these happen to us.

I am a product of the H-1B program. I came from Australia to fill a need a company had to program in a language that they had been advertising for 6 months here with NO response at all.

I have spent thousands of dollars on immigration lawyers and 'lodging fees' required by the USCIS for all the steps they say need to be taken to stay here.

Finally, after over 10 years (most of which has been waiting for USCIS to do something), I have a green card. I am working on becoming a citizen - another 3 year wait.

In the meantime the number of illegal immigrants here have increased by 400% over what was here 10 years ago. Lets deal with a REAL immigration issue - millions of people ignoring the law of the country and being allowed (even encouraged) to take work from American Citizens. The few tens of thousands of H-1B people (of which 79.3% are not violating their agreements) are not even a drop in the bucket compared to these criminals.

Yes, companies and individuals breaking the H-1B rules should be fined, evicted etc. But the plan is working for the rest of us.

By the way, perhaps a review of the rules covering spouses and family of H-1B people (H-4B status) should be reviewed. They are the ones that really suffer. They can not work or get a SSN. Even illegals get that 'privilege'.

When I read an article like this is saddens me to see that some of the posts include threats that if the United States of America stops programs like this our economy will crash. It is time for non-citizens that have the privilege to work in the United States to appreciate that privilege. When you work in a foreign country as a United States Citizen you are under more scrutiny than foreign workers are in the United States of America. It is time for United States Citizens to wake up to the true value of being a citizen, and make sure that we employ citizens first.

At a time when unemployment is at about 6%, with thousands of IT workers failing layoffs in the aftermath of the Wall Street mess, it is hard to justify bringing foreign workers here for IT. I wonder how open India is to American workers going there and taking high paying/high demand jobs from Indians? Not very is my guess. When Europe and Asian banks get tired of propping up the dollar artificially and the exchange rate starts to truly float, watch the outsourcing come to a quick end.

It is time to end or restrict the H1B program and it is ALWAYS time to punish fraudulent abuse of ANY program. Enough Wall street greed. It's time for our government to PROTECT CITIZENS instead of non citizens.

As in the movie "Casablanca": I'm shocked! Shocked!

Virtually ALL of my colleagues have had issues finding jobs in IT in the last 10 years and it's gotten worse and worse. The ONLY people clamoring for this program are the Guptas of the world (or should I say, India)?

I have nothing against Indians (or Chinese or other foreign nationals) - but they ought to be looking for work in their own country. How would you and your family feel if I took YOUR job in YOUR country?

The H-1B visa program is a joke, It's intended to enrich corporations and it's had a terrible effect on Americans. It is obvious to everyone in the industry what has been going on, but politicians (and corporate leaders) continue to turn a blind eye.

Unemployed people do not contribute to taxes. And foreign nationals are NOT paying their fair share because of depressed wages (and failure to report full earnings).

I do not want to hear another word about how the program is good, or how it actually helps the US or any other such nonsense. And I certainly do not need to be lectured by Gupta. You have NO voice in this matter. I do not care what YOU want. You are not a citizen of the US and you do not have any right to voice an opinion in this matter just as I have no right to voice any opinion about laws or regulations back in India.

The H-1B program allows foreign workers to take jobs from Americans basically because the H-1Bs work for less money. This is a moral outrage.. Americans losing homes and families suffering because they cannot find a job while the companies that are happy to take their money for the products they produce are not willing to hire the very people who keep them in business.

Think about the economy H1 brings to this country.

Came here with 2 large suitcases

Apply for SSN

Lease an Apartment

Buy a used/new car

Make a trip back to home country after one year

Bring back the family on H4 visa (flight tickets)

Apply for Green card (lots of fees)

After applying 485 and before getting GC apply EAD and Advance Parol every year.

No proper sleep till GC is approved.

All of the above is happening with that low wage.

Lot of other things not mentioned here to help the local economy.

Hey Gupta A,

Did you come through one of the Middleman Software consulting companies?

But for 1 I like your 2 and 3

With the economy, americans should be given priority fot the jobs. We dont need H1b and L1 workers.

H1B Visas destroyed this country and the jobs for all Americans. H1J Visas should be the next thing checked for fraud. Many people use a J1 for criminal activity within the US. Is there plans to investigate that also?

Ranga - Any economic benefits seen by the H1 Visa progam is nullified by the number of American workers that the program displaces. While the Gupta worker is renting an apartment and buying cars the US worker has lost his job and could possibly lose his house. How is creating more unemployment, foreclosures and repossesions beneficial to the economy? America needs to take care of it's own first.

Tell me of one industry, society or political area where misuse, mistreat or fraud does not happen. Until that happens, regardless of what the outcome is, everybody (american or non-american) will find ways to cheat the system for self benefits or protection.

The H1 concept is good. Unfortunately, the execution sucks along with punishment or penalties for violaters, not just because of government, but by companies that are operated by Americans, who found ways around the system to benefit themselves.

"Karl : When I read an article like this is saddens me to see that some of the posts include threats that if the United States of America stops programs like this our economy will crash."

The worst i.e. unthinkable has happened - Our economy has crashed and is careening out of control the pundits and experts are speculating as per usual. Now seems like a really good time to suspend the HB-1 Visa program in the interest of fully employing citizens as part of a recovery and building a solid basis for future viability. This would also give the opportunity to overhaul the system and prevent problems in the future and prosecute the profiteers and abusers.

Sherri

I've been fighting this since 2002 when; for me anyway, it appeared to begin or at least escalate. In talking with many whom I knew to be par with or way over me, they were even complaining that the companies were going to Washington to lobby for more H1-B's, and were really there to depress wages and prostitute these jobs down to that of someone working at Micky-D's--all for the purpose of increasing their corporate profit margins.

I could routinely go into many agencies and talk to them and the same rhetoric was always coming. You either are over qualified for the position, or you don't have enough experience (yea, like 8 years wasn't enough), and the most common was the job was filled. Later on; to find out the job was gotten by a "student" from India or somewhere. I knew this was BS from the get-go.

This really was all about trashing the titles and such to prop up profits for the companies doing the hiring. That's why you had the likes of IBM and many other larger companies lobbying Congress to increase the H1-B's because they just couldn't get enough of them. Us Americans just cost too much. Even Microsoft is lobbying and complaining that since they can't get enough, they'll move to Canada where there are no restrictions. Oh yea; they're still a US company. Figure that one out.

"Better to have workers here than relocating all to India or China."

Exactly wrong. U.S. businesses want the cheap overseas labor, but the laws, protections, and infrastructure of America. If they think it's so great to depress the wages of their fellow citizens, then let them take advantage of the labor at its source. Although some will be outsourced, most businesses will realize the folly of outsourcing.

At some point (hopefully) our imperial overlords in Washington should realize that the U.S. IS a separate country from the rest of the world and that there should be two types of jobs: those done by Americans in America, and those that aren't.

A Consultant's Story
I remember one fine day in 2002, as I was winding down my employment at G*@#$(@? after having trained several H1B lottery winners to do my job, being told that although there were positions within the company available, I could not have one (despite being uniquely qualified) because I was not of a particular ethnic origin.

The silence was deafening, the witnesses were all in place and I declined to pursue a lawsuit, perfectly confident that my talent would see me through.

I was wrong.

I think it's perverse to import workers to displace a domestic workforce whether it is in the USA or anywhere else in the world. H1B needs to be cast into the dustbin of history. Don't believe me? Look at the financial markets and realize it is a symptomatic of a shrinking middle class as a result of not outsourcing (which I do not believe is a bad thing), but insourcing.

Rome is on fire and nobody remembers how to make a bucket.

We individually need to evaluate our 'Walmart' mentality. If you want it cheap, someone is going to be exploited. Want cheap computers, cheap programming, you get them by sacrificing local manufacturing and the local workforce. Evaluate your personal choices and you will see what drives the need to off-shore and displace USA workers.

I'm just curious to know how many people who are criticizing the different immigration programs really have any idea how it really works and what's it for. Not to mention - considering that H1 program allows only ~50,000 new visas per year, I fail to see how 50,000 immigrants per year can "destroy the country" of 300 million people. I mean - it would take about 60 or so years for H1B people to make just 1% of the US work force. I don't think that's too threatening.

Few other things to consider:
- To even qualify for an H1B visa, you need to be quite an educated person. That itself makes you an important asset to any company that relies on brainpower.
- If a software company wants to employ a specific person, they will. Either they bring him/her to the US and pay all the taxes etc. here, or they have him work remotely from wherever and the US government won't see a dime.
- In general, the US economy fully relies on cheap work force. I don't mean H1B workers specifically, but in overall. If you want to pay only $5 for a shirt, it will be made in China because of the labor cost. Or, you can get the same shirt made by all-American workforce, but the price tag on it will most likely be $30-$40. A company that offshores customer service and manufacturing to India is doing that so as your computer could cost only $400 rather than maybe $800 or so. Even *if* the H1B workers were underpaid (although from my experience they're not), not employing them at all would increase consumer prices of everything by tens of percents.

It's really as easy as that: If you want cheap stuff, you need to create it for cheap (in terms of how much you get for your time and money). Employing expensive labor means having to sell the product for more. Consequently, increasing the product price will also mean that people will be able to afford less unless you increase their wages. And if you increase their wages, your labor costs will increase as well so you need to increase the price of the product. And so on and so forth... And we all know how much Americans love to shop...

So really - try to think of the big picture before you take radical stands...

I find this discussion amazing because you all seem to have missed a very critical point.

Outsourcing... With more complicated visa procedures all they are going to do is outsource...

I have come to realize that outsourcing is not a numbers game anymore. Outsourcing is not that much cheaper. BUT it is much more flexible and simpler.

Well its finally out of the bag
it has been my experience that the H1B Visa program would get to this level as in this case the cream does not float to the top. I was in the "business for 30 years - now in Govt" - I personally saw the complete turn over of several coding departments within a Major company I worked for 10 yeas which was employing US citizens and then began the drift to H1B visa staffing until the H1B Visa holders moved us "Natives" out. And it was not for lack skills that many of us were "deported" by H1B visa holders; it was for the most basic or reasons. Plain old greed, as business began the cutthroat process of pushing the operating cost factor to the lowest cost, and not caring about who or what was in the way. The Final episode was that this company moved several coding and development sections to India, Of course the H1B visa holders in the US were let go but they found outher jobs in the US displacing more "Native Citizens" at other locations in this area - NorCal

The H-1B program has been corrupt for years! It needs to be investigated!

There should be no H-1B visas issued until it is absolutely proven to be needed.

I came to this country 12 years ago under the H1B program. While today I am a proud American and happy to be in this wonderful country, I must say that I had to work doubly hard as my American colleagues just to retain my position.

The prevailing situation during the late 90's was that you had to leave the country if you lost your job and did not find another sponsor. If you were going through the green card process (as I had been) which took anywhere between 4-10 years you had to literally start all over again if your current employer fired you.

I must admit that I was brought in by a fairly reputed American owned ERP small consulting firm in Englewood, CO on a near six figure offer, who exploited my situation while on bench by paying me a basic pay, which barely covered living expenses for me and my family (wife and son). So there are several such unscrupulous operators who have been exploiting the situation which besides being unlawful, is unfair to both to the immigrant and to America.

Now, leaving aside the emotions, I feel there is surely truth in the feeling that H1B workers have taken away many American jobs, and I sympathise with my fellow Americans.

At the same time I also feel that the US can't do without H1 B workers. While there are instances like mine, where H1B workers are paid less than what was promised in their H1B petitions/offer letters, it's a fact that a vast majority of them are paid on par with American workers or higher.

However, just as in every other case, regulatory oversight needs to be tightened and penalties for fraud needs to be made severe to deter unscrupulous companies from misusing the facility.

I have no problem with someone trying to better their position in life as many of the H1b are trying to do the problem is the corperations here, maybe if some of these big CEOs would take a pay cut from their millions a month we could keep our qualified people working here. plus they cut cost (through layoffs) and get a bonus this needs to stop. The trikle down theory was working until the vaccumm of greed started to suck everything back up at the top. so I say no CEO should make more that a million a year No loop holes with stock options and such. no big perks for the top guys they can buy there own vehicles just like you and me.

Oh, and just for the sake of hypocrisy: When it comes to foreigners displacing local workforce - how many Americans are working abroad under a visa program of the foreign country similar to US's H1B...?

I've applied unsuccessfully for a H1B visa the last 2 years. I graduated from a United States College and worked on my post graduation training. The company really liked me and I was really happy with them. Due to the system I have to go back to my country after pumping '"out of state"' tuition fees into the United States.

I feel that I'm here in the US, I speak the language, I have a degree to show for it and I get passed over for someone that's not living in the United States and can't speak the language. Where's the fairness in that?

I'm a victim of the H-1B visa scam. As an American citizen living here all my life, I've spent thousands of dollars on a college education and certification courses to be able to perform my job. The company I use to work for decided to outsource all of IT to India TCS company and made my job along with hundreds of others "redundant". Now I can't find a new job as there are hundreds of techs applying for a handful of jobs.

The problem isn't H-1Bs, it's unorganized labor. Labor can't organize in the United States because the ideology the prevails here won't allow it. Most software engineers and other IT industry workers are paid very high wages compared to the US median wage (which for a family of FOUR is $65,000 -- meaning two adults and two children work to make a TOTAL of $65,000, half make LESS).

IT workers do not see themselves as workers, but as "professionals." That's part of the problem as well. In real purchasing power, modern IT workers get paid the same as auto workers or truck drivers did in the 1960s and 1970s. Meaning in their ability to buy a house, a car, etc. they are no wealthier.

But auto workers and truck drivers saw themselves as workers and organized into unions. IT "professionals" see themselves as budding entrepreneurs and "managers" who value capitalism, entrepreneurship, low capital gains taxes, little to no regulation of business because "government is always less efficient" than the private sector.

The H-1B program is just a symptom. Offshoring is much more sinister. IT workers didn't have a problem with factory jobs, textile jobs, call center jobs, all sorts of jobs being offshored. Many said to me, "Well, that's called "creative destruction" and it's GREAT! It's what makes the American economy strong and the best in the world! Those people simply need to 'retool' by changing their skills and learning new marketable skills! Those who don't want to will make less money, but that's their choice."

Then, when offshoring got to IT workers, they were fairly well confused. What to do? You're pro business because you think it is in your interest and then you start realizing that the corporations that employ you have different interests than yours: you want the highest wage possible and they want to pay the lowest wage possible. This "new discovery" for IT workers was known to most other laborers for 1,000 years.

But IT workers will not be able to do anything about this because they will never see themselves as "workers" until their work is seen as no more prestigious than a telephone or cable repairman (and with inflation, those guys often get paid $80K to $100K now, which is comparable to IT 'professional' salaries). Actually, Santa Clara County Sheriffs get paid $74,000 a year to start, so that gives you an idea about the prestige of any job where pay is $100K a year or less.

The fact is that 90% or more of all Americans are workers in the old fashioned sense of that word. But only 30% or so see themselves as workers. The rest think charging a Coach bag, leasing a Mercedes, and borrowing a lot of money to buy a house is the same thing as being wealthy. It's not.

The greatest secret to be revealed in 2009 is that a lot Americans are workers and they only THOUGHT they were entrepreneur/capitalist/businesspeople.

Change comes through accepting the reality of your situation, then organizing your fellows to work toward a solution.
H-1Bs aren't a problem because they have to pay them too much. Companies want fairly skilled IT workers like applications engineers for no more than $30K a year and they aren't going to get them here. They are biding their time here while the infrastructure (including human) is further built out abroad. When it's done, IT 'professionals' here will get paid $30K a year too.

Really?? No way!!! US corporations would never give cheap foreign workers preferential treatment over US citizens when hiring. Then abuse them because of their servitude. No more than they would fire US citizens to replace with them with cheap off shore workers. The author must not have his facts straight. Soon he'll be telling me that pigs can't fly!!!

Ryan: What does moving an operation from one country to another have to do with a non-immigrant visa program...?

You're not a victim of the H1B visa program - most likely, you're a victim of the US Companies Act that specifically mandates all executives to act in the best interest of shareholders - NOT EMPLOYEES OR GENERAL PUBLIC - by reducing costs, increasing profits and ensuring future competitiveness.

I personally have no problem at all with the "toolmakers" (e.g. Microsoft, Computer Associates, IBM, Symantec, and the hardware makers) bringing all the best and brightest they can lay their hands on. They make widgets that affect everyone, so even tiny improvements have huge benefits for the world.

There's also a place for multi-nationals like GE, Nike, and Big Pharma to have access to them, otherwise they'll just move their R&D completely to India.

However, companies that serve the domestic market such as transportation providers, health care firms, regional banks and insurance companies should be hiring American workers, even if they have to pay a bit more.

In truth, the wage differential is not that great these days, because they've gotten all of us natives beaten down and bloodied after ten years' bludgeoning us with Indians.

Just sayin....

It is evident that the US does not care about the American Citizens of this country. Corporations, Industries are getting richer at the expense of these poor immigrants willing to work for cheap monies. What will be the outcome is not the AMERICAN DREAM that we the US Citizens of this country were so proud of but instead a government that has joined the other foreign governments in ensuring there is nothing but poverty, hunger stricken families because the jobs are for the foreigners. They will not be spending these monies in the US but sending them to families they left back in their native countries so they no longer have to live in poverty and not be obligated to pay taxes. What's next, the US becoming a third world country?

P:

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!

It was truly a splendid way of explaining:
- Firstly, the attitude of the American consumer in seeking the lowest price
- Why H1B employees are NOT as great a threat to the American workforce as it is commonly percieved to be, and lastly
- How American companies will seek most cost effective solutions hiring the best available talent at the lowest cost either here at home or abroad (through out-sourcing).

I believe the US government has limited leverage in influencing this trend in this age and time where globalization is the norm.

Quite frankly, unless we Americans retool ourselves and espouse special skills through our unmatched ingenuity, the coming decades will not be fair to the American worker.

Genie is out of the bottle on less expensive labor. Just like it was in textiles, automobiles, and other skills/industries. Argue all you want, but somehow the spigot of skill need did not happen to turn on full force in 2000, to instantaneously demand more Support and Maintenance resources. Which is normally low hanging fruit in the outsourcing game. It is labor arbitrage - yes the cheese moved - it stinks - but it is not India it is also China, Russia, Brazil, and the Czech Republic. But good for us prices continue to rise 10% per year in India so maybe next year will see increase in H1B or L1s from some former Soviet Republic.

So let's take the reality of it, companies won't pay for training (if you want to continue to learn do it on your own time and money - the investment does not make sense,) the is no such thing as life-long employment - employment is voluntary for you and for them - so think about that the next time you agree to bend over backwards and work through the night. Given the choice between paying salary X and Y and Y is greater than X, company will take Y even with a heavy accent. Even if X is far more qualified and maybe worth it.

It pretty much stinks - and by relying on corporations to be "good citizens," whatever that is, is ridiculous. Companies particularly big companies play in the global game of competition where whomever generates the most revenue at the least cost in the winner. Guess what IT is a cost center - it is all cost. Call it technology advantage, or others call it the price of investment, but come right down to it - it is a POS or another "thing" that costs something. Can you tell me how much revenue the POS Machine made for your company this year. Sure there are apps that give advantage or better function/analytics to drive a sale or build a widget faster, but when you put 10 execs in a room they look at the cost to benefit and TCO - which is the same thing they do with the new air conditioner on the roof.

Just always remember - companies will act in their best interest and not yours - what is their motivation to care about yours? Give me cheap, give me fast, give me mediocre and that is probably good enough. Game has changed, time we did too.

First, I must say that I see this in another perspective. As a Federal Contractor, I see that many high priced consulting jobs are not going to Americans. Companies would rather bring in a lower price H1B asset.

Secondly, The companies don't have to pay for a higher priced American to do the job, but also, don't have to pay for the education and training of an American. So more costs savings.

Third, they don't have to promote an American to a higher paying job.

Fourth, they can cancel the visa and send the H1B back to where they came from and no one says anything. Saves money there.

Fifth, They still charge the American government the same rates for an H1B than an American, but they pocket the savings, good for the company, bad for the American.

Sixth, What they get is a H1B person who is glad he is here and can bring his family over and live better than he would at home. But this leads to one important thing. A worker who is not going to say no to the employer under any circumstance. A yes man. This leads to Americans getting replaced by a yes man that will OK anything that the business people want him to do. Like doing an architecture of the Federal Govt. agency to strategically align the system to support the contractor rather than the US Government client. Or approve FEDERAL FISMA IT AUDITS on FEDERAL SYSTEMS that should not be certified. THIS IS SO BAD AT DHS THAT THE DOD REFUSES TO CONNECT THEIR SYSTEMS WITH DHS.

BTW- any study that comes from the people doing the study on themselves, is worthless. IF it was an independent study, like GAO, OIG or even Congress, we could have faith in the results. I wouldn't doubt that it is 30-40% error rates. But DHS USCIS has to look good (relatively speaking).

And because the DHS people are idiots, the vendor will tell them anything and in 90% the Idiots will approve it, because they got their position from playing politics and NOT being qualified (SME) to do the IT job with the Government that they hold, OR they are political appointees who want to screw up the government so bad, that the Govt. will have to outsource programs.

The business people do this and if things go wrong, they blame it on the foreigner and cancel his visa, or hide him in some other part of the company. The company saves money. He is not replaced while the GAO, OIG figures out what is wrong. Then when the reports come out, nobody remembers why it was done in the first place and is ignored. Executives fraud, waste, corruption is forgotten.

What should be happening is the FBI should walk into the Executives Contractors office and put the SOB's in handcuffs and drag his sorry a... outside in front of the cameras and throw his a.. into the back of a squad car and take him and book him and release his mug shot to the press.

Some would say public executions of corrupt people would do wonders, but would the American people go for Executives hanging from lampposts in Wall Street and Washington DC if it would solve the ethical and moral issues that the business executives are exploiting?

This is so bad in the Federal Government that the IT Systems are NOT protected and the Foreign nations armies are hacking into our systems, so that the Executives can make more profit. These Executives are NOT doing the right thing. On Visas, on education for Americans, for criminal fraud, for National Security reasons.

The money paid to a H1B and spent could just as easily be spent by an American for "local services".

And the worse that happens if you stop the visa mill (much like the Security Clearance mill) the companies will have to pay the going rate. They might charge (I doubt it as they put the difference in price between the H1B and an American into their pocket) more to the govt. for the same work, if their profits drop, but that might be just the price of doing GOOD business.

These H1B's replace Americans in really good paying jobs. I don't mind if they come and do work that no one else wants to do at $10 an hour, but not $50 an hour and up well paid consulting jobs. There is 3% unemployment in the IT industry, hire these people for the jobs that you have vacant because you trained and promoted other Americans into well paid Consulting jobs.

The issue in higher priced positions, you get a yes man to do things that Americans would not do because it is against the American's interest, because it is illegal and/or criminal and because it is not in the interest of the client.

An H1B worker won't say a word.

And this allows the contractors to bypass laws, costs, regulations, rules, etc that are there to protect everyone. H1B's don't care. Shut your mouth, do what you are told, and you can stay here with you family at half the living standard half that of an American would be paid if you weren't here.

These H1B visa are fundamental to the outsourcing corruption of our US IT Systems. The government doesn't know what is happening because they have outsourced the program. And work is not being done, the controls are not there, the Program Managers coerce, intimidate and harass the Americans (ISSO's, CISO's, ISSM's) that are trying to put the FISMA, GLBA, SOX or other compliance measures into the Govt. IT systems to protect the National Security of the USA.

The Federal Employees don't know what is going on and the contractors are RIPPING off the Federal Govt. by not doing the work, but also by bringing in lesser quality (YES MEN) to do the work of Americans.

My mother was an immigrant and she had to promise not to go on public assistance. The family guaranteed that she wouldn't go on the dole or welfare. All of the family is then living off of one salary. It is better than India, for the H1B or where ever, but it is not good for Americans or the Federal Govt. systems. You get the immigrants into the USA and they get their GC or Passport and they take the higher paying jobs. Like in medicine, IT, Universities, etc. This is the business and government doing this to their own citizens. Instead of paying for what the job costs and training their employees and trying to make MORE profit (GREED by the business executives). 11% return is not enough, we need 14% and so we screw your fellow American.

The BUSINESS ELEMENT IN THIS COUNTRY HAS NO ALLEGIANCE TO THE UNITED STATES. ALL THEY WANT IS PROFIT AND THEY DON'T GIVE A DAMN WHO SUFFERS AS LONG AS THEY ARE RIPPING OFF THEIR FELLOW AMERICAN AND THE US GOVT. AS LONG AS THEY CAN LOOK BETTER AS MORE PROFIT IS MADE.

The US Govt has to stop allowing the business contractors to make decisions for the US Govt. In the area of visa and clearances, in the area of wages and placement of H1B's into ANY DECISION making capacity- such as Architects or managers or etc. The govt is so stupid it doesn't understand the the vendor will strategically align the IT systems to benefit the vendor/contractor- not the US Govt. when they do this.

BRING OVER THE FOREIGNERS TO DO THE LOW PAYING JOBS THAT PAY $10 AN HOUR. Not the $50 an hour jobs. TRAIN THE AMERICANS FOR THE BETTER PAYING JOBS. Charge the client what it costs. Same with healthcare benefits. Require that everyone has medical insurance if you work. Even part time work. MacDonalds with cost $1.00 more, but if you work, you have insurance and you get treatment. No GC, no work, no medical. Go home and get your papers in order then come back here and work.

Govt. is good when it makes the rules and oversees the programs. They are terrible implementers. Business is good when it implements with the govt. looking over its shoulders.

Govt. is bad when it allows business to make decisions for it and doesn't provide the oversight needed to manage the situation.

When are we going to have professional data acquisition people do the IT Auditing, risk management, controls within Federal Govt. programs. So that the data is there to know that the program is run correctly?

And with IT you can automate this auditing and controls situation.

All the H1B visa's that you want. But you can't pay more than $20 an hour for a job and you can't pay less than the going rate for the position. Companies train your employees to get the degrees that they need to do the job. PERIOD.

You don't make a profit by supplying low cost resources and not train AMERICANS. It is unpatriotic and these companies should be blacklisted from working for the Federal Govt.

It's not the H1-B workers themselves that I take issue with, it's the slimeball middle-man companies that exploit and rort the process.

I very nearly went the H1-b route myself, but I got such a bad vibe from the whole intake process that I decided against it. To this day, I remain grateful that I didn't sell my soul into indentured servitude.

If they can speak like a newscaster on the 6 PM news that would be a help. Perhaps that should be a condition of getting the visa in the first place.

So all the Bob's and Paul's and Ryan's (I bet support McCain and think Obama is an Arab - puh-leeze - yeah you know who you are) are saying it is fine to FORCEFULLY get people from Africa to be slaves FOR FREE, but you cannot compete with the H1-B workers who - if you are not aware - have worked hard for most of their life before and after coming to the US and are more law abiding and responsible than the rest 99% of the US population.

Maybe you all need to get your heads out of the sand and try getting a job in an alien country, move bag baggage leaving family behind just to make a better life. Only then would you appreciate the things we have to endure to be working here LEGALLY.

As some one has pointed out the non tax paying Jose is a bigger threat to the US than a tax paying, law abiding and contributing Gupta. I am from NJ and you will not believe some of the bigotry you have to put up with daily

Maybe you will get it in your next life when you are born in Somalia or Haiti. Till then keep bitching.

H-1B administration and enforcement has been sloppy and politically motivated for at least the last 15 years. I'm not surprised that an agency has suddenly discovered the fact of fraud.

In 1993 I complained to Rep. Tom DeLay about this and was told that he "was in favor of business." What that meant was "was in favor of businesses who make big campaign contributions." That was the reason that this lifetime Republican helped campaign against DeLay.

This year, I am going to vote a straight Democrat ticket. The Republicans have shown themselves to be complete jerks when they have the reins of government. I'm voting for a whole new set of jerks.

NO.. H1-B visas are bad. Because currently, these people that work here are sending the money that is made here, to their home lands at a rate of $24 billion a year and climbing further putting in debt. Not to mention that its just taking jobs away from LEGAL Americans.
I believe in a closed economy where we ware responsible for our own products. Slowly ween ourselves off the need for oil and other foreign products. Time to make America, America again.

Another thing....As is right now...Many people would be glad to grab these jobs at a lower pay rate. So the need for foreign work is useless. The out sourcing is part of the reason why the economy is bad.. no Jobs...No money.. no one spending....end of story.

Bob:

While you are realistic, you do sound angry.

I bet if you were owning a company, and were catering to the demands of an ever demanding consumer to provide goods & services at the lowest prices, you would do the same to cut costs, wouldn't you?

You surely wouldn't care about the heavy accents or the skin color as long as he/she does the job at a lower cost to you, would you?

Also, Bob tell me if you are prepared to pay 25-50% more for an item just because it is made in America with American labor?

Finally, while there may be instances of some under qualified H1Bs who would sneek in, for the most part H1B employees are well qualified and bring the SPECIFIC skills needed for the job, and often times they are paid higher salaries than Americans.

Please note, I am not making a comparison of American and immigrant workers, b 'coz it's a mixed bag everywhere.

Sean has explained with wonderful clarity and in great details what I've been thinking (and worrying) about for last few years - there won't be any future for IT 'professionals' in US unless they unite to bargain collectively with employers and to lobby the government. All other professionals - lawyers, doctors, accountants, airline pilots, etc - have managed to defend their turf against this foreign invasion a lot better than IT professionals because those other professionals are united and have used their lobbying power to create hurdles to entry of foreign nationals in their professions.

Consider, for example, the health care. It is a lot bigger expense for corporations than IT, especially given the returns they get.
Health care is so expensive that almost everyone has to carry insurance to be able to meet any health eventuality. However, if US IT costs are really so high, does any corporation have to take out an insurance for dealing with eventuality of a failure of its computer systems? On the other hand, despite astronomical health care costs, how many doctors come to US on H1B? Foreign doctors (and lawyers, accountants, etc) have to go through a long cycle of retraining in order to work here in US. Why? Are US human bodies different than Indian human bodies that those Indian doctors treated successfully back home? If India claims to be creating 'intelligent smart, educated' (and what not) IT professionals by thousands every year, why wouldn't it be able to also export tons of lawyers, doctors, accountants to work in US on H1B visa? The answer lies in artificial hurdles created by lobbying by those US professionals whose jobs they'll take.

Considering the cost savings based on number of clerical positions that a typical computer system replaces, the cost of skilled labor that's required to keep those systems running is far less - that's why companies automate a business process in the first place! As far as cost of developing any new computer system is concerned, it's a capital investment for improvement in business, not the cost of keeping it running.

So this whole argument of going offshore for keeping the prices low is a hog wash - it's all about maximizing profit margins, not about passing that benefit of labor arbitrage to consumer. Compare the 'rollback' in prices at WalMart to difference between wages in US and China and you'll see the real motives behind offshoring.

As regards need for 'highly skilled' workers on H1B, it's both a fraud as well as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It's fraud not only due to all the reasons mentioned in BusinessWeek article, but also because of rampant fraud by H1B visa seekers, especially from India (and may be other third world countries too) in producing bogus credentials to get the visa in the first place. I personally have came across over the years many Indian H1B visa holders with either outright bogus credentials or credentials from disreputed 'universities' in India. I personally know of many individuals who have disclosed to me during casual conversations that they committed fraud in writing their resume, in interviewing (over telephone), etc. to pretend to be more qualified than their American counterparts and to take those jobs.

What efforts do US employers make to verify the educational and professional credentials of H1B seekers from third world countries? There are no well-known accreditation systems of universities in those countries to figure out ranking of universities there. Many colleges there are notorious for giving degrees and other professional certificates by accepting bribes. Also, many of them not only tolerate but even encourage plagiarism during tests. Are these fraudsters the 'experts' on whom US economy depends so desperately?

This 'need' for H1B and offshoring is also a self-fulfilling prophecy because once jobs are taken away from US citizens by fraudulent means, the new generation of Americans would truly move away from taking computer training since they know it wouldn't give them jobs. This would create the shortfall in US skilled labor, precisely what US corporations want as an excuse for asking for more H1B and offshoring.

Based on my personal experience in IT industry over last many years, the real secret behind success of Infosys, TCS and Wipro is not abundance of highly qualified and cheap labor but rather a big army of low-skilled cheap labor that is trained in pretending to be experts, in stealing the knowledge and work of experienced people at client site and then making those experienced people redundant. Of course, all this is happening with collusion of US mangers at these US companies whose sole goal is to 'meet or beat the numbers' in next quarterly earnings report. These US corporations first hire local US experts at high wages, then make them transfer their knowledge to these 'skilled' H1B workers and once that transfer is complete fire the local experts leaving only a handful behind to oversee the army of H1B workers and to be accountable for their work.

There is also another fraud going on right here in US - many Indian 'training institutes' teaching 'currently hot' technologies using pirated software, stolen documents, etc 'guaranteeing' the jobs to their students. Many of these institutes are run by Indian H1B or GC-holders with 'contacts' with the managers in US companies. These training institutes 'decorate' the resumes of their students, provide them with bogus references and help them during telephone interviews to place them in the departments of the IT managers who are their 'contacts' in US companies . Will any US authorities bother to investigate this fraud that makes it harder for genuine candidates to find that scarce job?

I'm all for free markets where employers and employees have freedom to choose each other at terms most favorable to them.

However, such free markets exist only in fantasy. In reality, the markets are always manipulated by either Governments or big Corporations or both. Corporations lobby the governments to get the laws favorable to them and then ordinary citizens, IT professionals in this case, get the short end of the deal.

Unless US IT professionals take a cue from doctors, lawyers and other highly paid professionals in US, they'll go the same way steel-, textile-, auto- and other workers have gone over last century.

The H-1B Visa has one purpose and that is to depress US wages.
It is a reprehensible program with no redeeming features.
The imported workers would be better utilized building middle classes in their respective countries.
I have watched as whole departments of US workers have been replaced by H-1B visa holders.
So much for US citizenship.

in reply to the gentleman bill b :
"Even the Indians came over from Asia. No one is truly native to this country".
This the eurocentric take on this. And the evidence is pretty thin there.
We, who are of native decent assert that we did not 'come over here' but some of us went over Contrairy to popular opinion, there are some really great engineers, doctors, bankers, ect. that just happen to be "native americans"

The politicians have been bought and paid for by the foreign slave labor bosses. Until the politicians see that they will get voted out of office for their bad behavior, they will keep voting for these programs and for the destruction of the american middle class.

The only way to fight these morons is to vote against the incumbent -- always. When they wonder why they lost, tell them it is their reward for selling out the American people.

The problem with the program is that these contractors are sent over here by these big firms as "lost leaders" to create moles that eventually take the work back to India by hook or crook. Many are hardly qualified and spend their nights texting back to their sr. people at their firm in India on how to do their work, then they sit around acting like they're working when they can't do squat. That has been my experience.

You get what you pay for and their lack of business knowledge, and language differences cause more trouble than its worth. Better to use automation, application frameworks, etc. to drive costs down than the H1 route. Its a short sighted and corrupt program.

As a retired engineer who spent his last working years in the IT area I can say that the H1B scam has worked for many years against the interest of technical personnel, going back for 30 or more before IT came on the scene. Engineers, as IT people today, viewed themselves as "professionals" while management treated them as workers but played along with the professional label as this alienated the workers from pursuing their own interests by organizing.

Sean's post above summarizes the situation perfectly. The vast majority of engineers (95% ?) were anti-union and would never associate themselves with the union movement.

I worked in Europe for nearly 20 years and the benefits of engineers organizing were very apparent. There was NO unpaid overtime and it was impossible to replace an engineer just to save money on labor costs.

But of course here in the good old USA we have accepted the idea that unions are only for lower class workers. Until that attitude is overcome people deserve what they get for not acting in their own interests.

i think Bob, and a number of other people, alluded to it as well but bottom line is the company will always do what is best for the company, the days of company loyalty is from the days of the '50s. it is all about making the "shareholders" money. i realize the H1B Visas are about specialty jobs but Americans (specifically) want cheaper products, no matter what the cost (regardless of how it is obtained, i.e. sweatshops, Wal-Mart-like employee conditions, Chinese lead-laden toys). that is not to say you have to "buy American" just because it is the right thing to do, that is baloney. Labor unions, like Auto Unions, have a strangle hold on American manufacturers like GM and Ford, they had a purpose long ago, but have been so abused, it is no wonder Detroit does not have the controlling share of car sales each year, just over 40% for the big three. people don't want to buy crap, but they don't want to spend alot either, where is the balance? the US is becoming a nation who is services-oriented and i am not sure if that is such a good thing.

I could address this to everyone, but I will address it to the last two respondents....

To Christian: Depending on the project, outsourcing can be beneficial in cost, flexibility, and simplicity. However, from years of experience, and being as objective as I can be, it is usually none of those things. You're response is incorrect as it is overly simplified.

To P.: I have been working in the IT industry since about 1995. I have designed, developed, deployed and maintained large web applications. I have worked as a consultant and as technical lead in several large corporations. I have managed teams and built a start-up from nothing.
If I believed that outsourcing and offshoring worked, and my days were truly numbered, I would just change jobs, I am not afraid of change.
However, that is just not the case.

I have repeatedly seen CTOs and IT Directors jump into the outsourcing and offshoring process to reduce their bottom line and win their quarterly bonus. Then after a few quarters, productivity slides, as it so often does with outsourcing and offshoring, and they try to add more local resources to bolster their internal team, so that projects will get accomplished in a timely fashion. Or, some organizations buy so deeply into the process that they are stuck and they accept the fact that their rate of productivity, in regards to technology dependent initiatives, is permanently decreased.
I now implement an advanced technology at many large organizations, and I have great Desi (Indian/Pakistani) friends. I have hired them and they have ate at my table. We are no better than them, they are no better (I used to imagine all of them as wise men - wrong) than us.
The real problem is that although we do need to occasionally augment our technology staffs in this country, it is too easy for corporations to take advantage of the system and for Desi consulting firms to make a killing while delivering resources that don't understand our social culture, our business culture and how both of those cultures affect business application development in this country. My problem is not with the hands-on people, but with the exploitation of the system. Recently, I sat at the entrance of one large client, in Texas, and I waited for two hours (client was late) and I watched as over 60% of the people that came in to work were obviously not American.
It truly sickened me. Oh, but it is the fault of every American... they don't want the job, they don't work hard enough. Folks, it is true, there is a shortage of good IT staff. However, I assure you, there are good IT staffers right here in the USA. These valuable resources have been let go by the corporations after giving a dedicated 5 - 10 -20 years of service. They are replace by someone from a foreign country that has no commitment to the corporation nor the country as a whole. They feel let down and often change careers. I am a capitalist, this would all be fine, if offshoring and outsourcing were better. They rarely are. They only people, who you will see refute my words here, will be managers, directors, and consulting firms that profit form this system. The hands-on foreign workers are some times valuable, it is the process that is wrong. The only negative of the workers is that they rarely are going to live long-term in the U.S., and thus don't have the same dedication to company and country that most Americans are born and bred to feel. But, I don't blame them, why should the foreign worker feel commitment toward our corporations or our country, they know they are being taken advantage of by their own people and by our system. People that are born here, on average, even though they are out for themselves, do consider America and it's business as something that must survive, something they need to support, even when it is not always supporting them. I think Americans would be shocked if they could see what I have seen. There are so many different clients, especially in the past three years, where the percentage of technology staff that are not American is huge. And again, if they were doing a top-knotch job, I would be writing here that all techies.. go find another job, leave it to the foreigners. But they don't do a better job. And, this system has really hurt American business productivity in the past 3 to 4 years. I have seen it. I have seen business users frustrated with the fact that their projects are not getting done, that they don't feel they have a team relationship with their IT staff anymore.
Ask anyone who works at a bank or large corporation, who is an internal customer to the bank's IT group, "Do you get your IT needs met in a decent time, specifically new projects?".

After the dotcom bust, many business folks saw outsourcing and offshoring and they though, "OH SEE!? I knew anybody could do this tech work for cheap! Those tech guys don't deserve to be paid well. I knew it was just hype."
Strong tech resources can truly make a business increase profits and customer satisfaction, especially when there is a trusted, mature, respectful relationship with the business resources.

What must we do!?
We must enact legislation that limits all work visas, from any one organization or country, from being greater than 25% of the total work visas. No monopolies and then there will be no more tech consulting mills. We will only permit visas for people we REALLY can't do without. We must restrict the amount of offshoring and outsourcing, and realize it is rarely the best option. Also, we must encourage corporations to promote technology education and sign-on bonuses, through focused tax-breaks.

Invest in Americans, those technologists that are truly strong, ask them to work long hours, but pay them well, and you will have a successful IT staff, a stronger corporate America, and a stronger America in general.

This posting thread originally started with the subject of H1B fraud. It then expanded quickly to the current problem of skilled, older US workers displaced by younger - some foreign workers.

I am a proponent that the change we need in this conutry is the elimination of speculative stock markets. Speculation in a stock's price has diluted managers view of long term goals and focused them only on short term quarterly stock performance. Planning for the short term promotes the virtue of getting what one can immediately rather than building for a future. Building for the future of the company, community, and country.

I propose that a stock's value be determined by its liquid net worth either quarterly or annualy and that its price be static and regulated. Individual investors should reap benefits from a stock's dividends which are directly tied to profits.

I beleive this was the original intent of how a stock was valued with the stock market providing the liquidity to allow individual investors to buy and sell stock as their monetary needs changed.

Somehow we got to the point where profit and earnings mean nothing and stock is traded like specualtive tokens with value based upon the trading of the company name rather than the value they produce. (Resulting in rapid true valuations like the internet bubble burst, credit crisis of over valued banking stock to true liquid net worth, and the future failures to follow...)

If companies are having a hard time finding qualified individuals in this country to fill the need for tech workers they should be willing to pay more for these workers, not less. Isn't that what supply and demand is all about. If they don't feel they should be paying the workers higher wages and benefits (thereby inticing more Americans into this field), then they should pay more through fees and taxes on these H-1B workers. The incentive to use these workers should NEVER be one of lower costs (again, supply and demand). The extra (and significant) fees and taxes could be used to support science and math education for US students.

Kudos to those workers from India, China, Australia and elsewhere who have taken on the demanding task of becoming qualified high tech workers. You should expect to enjoy challenging and rewarding careers here in the US or anywhere else that is willing to pay what your skills are worth. The problem is that the economics of the H-1B program are tilted against you (you are getting paid less than what you are worth based upon the principles of supply and demand) yet the threat of losing your status and returning home to an economy where supply is great but demand is low keeps you satisfied with lower wages and benefits here. This only benefits our corporations here in the US. Theoretically, this would translate into more jobs in other areas in the US economy, however I think it is abundantly clear that our US corporate executives are simply pocketing these windfalls through exorbitant salaries and bonuses for themselves.

A lot of the arguments in here are quite valid. I also need to remind the foreigners here that we are not at all unhappy at you. The problem lies in the American economy and the "capitalistic" methods causing some of this. The recent spate of Wall Street tumbles are some good representations of corporate greed gone amok, and it applies to companies that discovered they can bring in an India student and pay him 1/5th what an American wants and get the same thing done.

There does need to be some controls and monitoring placed on this. But it really also falls in the same line of why we are having such problems with illegal immigrants coming up here from Mexico. Nobody wants the responsibility of managing this. Then there is the tax burden there that is needed to pay for it. Where does it all stop???

The H1-B is a good program helping companies fill the IT talent void. You'd understand that if you were an IT manager. We need talented people all the time. Look at the costs we've run in to..

1.We've trained people/ they leave to look for greener pastures..which puts us back in to the market wasting more money and resources( which eventually raises our cost of operations and translates to expensive products on the market for the public .)

2. The H1-Bs are not cheaper. They're just more
available and come trained.

Some companies abuse the H1-B privilege. The Govt should take them to task. As for these TATAs and Wipros, They make it hard on all other small businesses by hogging 80% of the H1-bs and monopolize the market. I wis they'd set limits on these big guys..

To all my brothers and sisters:

I have read all of the postings as of this morning (October 15), and find them all moving, even tragic in some cases, and desperate in nearly all. There are those of us who support the H1B visa program and those of us who wish to dismantle it entirely, and others in the middle. What I would like to point out is that, if we are now in a global economy, that would mean that we all are part of a global work force, or global labor movement, where our interests run more in common with our fellow workers than they do with the managerial class that seeks to exploit us.

I am the grandchild of Jewish immigrants who came to this country in the late 19th or early 20th century. They came here for the same reason that the H1B IT workers seek to come here today: freedom of political expression, freedom of opportunity, freedom of religion, and the possibility of financial security. My grandparents generation was despised for "displacing" other American workers, just as many H1B workers are despised today. In both cases, the accusation is spurious. Two years ago, I witnessed the abusive displacement of an H1B visa worker who lived in my apartment building. The family had no time to say a proper good-bye, and possibly were too filled with anger and remorse at their position of powerlessness. Our children used to play with their daughter. This little girl had been born in this country (which, as we all know, gives her the rights of a citizen), but because her father was here as an H1B worker, when he was told to move to another city, he moved to that other city. This little girl had already attended three elementary schools in three different cities, and was beginning to show tell-tale signs of a personality disorder. Do we IT workers need to go through a Triangle Shirt Company fire, or some similar tragedy before we realize that as workers, both foreign and domestic, we all share a common goal and common set of values?

My position was "eliminated" 20 months ago, after twelve years with the same health care conglomerate. I know that foreign IT workers were being brought in to do the same or similar work that I was doing. However, I spent some time in staff meetings with these new workers, and found them to be, on the whole, dedicated, fully engaged, and personally generous. I also know that younger workers were being brought in to do my specific job, most likely recent college graduates. These young workers were all so thrilled to have their new positions, to be "out there" in the real world, that they didn't pause to ask themselves why they were being asked to do the work of a far more experienced person, instead of being asked to work alongside of them. They were asked to replace a seasoned professional instead of being asked to be mentored by them.

The plutocrats of the managerial class are trained and rewarded by upper eschelon management, the true bosses, for being able to turn worker against worker, to create an atmosphere of fear and alienation in the workforce that they supervise. A fearful and subservient workforce will do the bidding of the bosses quickly and without question. If that bidding means the covering up of criminal activity or the falsification of financial records, as was most likely the case in the current financial disaster, then that will be what they will do. If they fail to do the bidding of the bosses, as communicated to them through the plutocrats, then they will lose their jobs, and, as in my case, all of their savings and security, since none of the bosses at other conglomerates will hire a worker who is known to shy away from quasi-criminal assignments and business practices.

I have no advice to give, no solace to convey to those of you who, like me, have been wrongly displaced by the plutocrats, or who, at the end of each working day, fear that tomorrow's dawn will bring their dismissal slip. I can only offer these words: please know that, no matter where we come from, as IT workers we share more together in common, throughout the world, then we
differ from each other. If an H1B worker stays here longer than 10 years, his or her skills will most likely become obsolete, unless, along with all their other expenses, they continually retrain themselves. If a young IT college grad thinks that he or she will be smiled upon by the plutocrats for longer than that same 10 years, without the expense of retraining continuously, think again. Insecurity and chaos are the hallmarks of today's IT workplace. My only hope is that this system of fear and chaos will be brought down by its own criminality, and that sometime soon our newly elected officials will do their civic duty and protect and defend the rights of the workers.

I have friends who came here on H1B visas. The problem with these programs is not the program itself, but it's use in a manner that was never intended. So, any company should be able to hire a foreign worker and pay them at greater than the prevailing wage for the job they are actually doing (the best and brightest). Companies (especially foreign owned ones) should not be allowed to body-shop anyone on any type of immigrant visa. Close the body-shop loophole, and none of these programs will be a problem for anyone.

Man...all this hostility! I think that is the real problem..Remember the phrase: "Can't we all just get along?" If you really think you have it so bad, then read this:
I live in Canada. I graduated from CDI College of Business, Technology & Healthcare as a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer...after I graduated, I was informed that I had obtained more certifications than anyone who had ever taken the course, counting all the other CDI campus's across the country. I got a nice shiny award from the college, etc. but what I really needed was a job. I walk with a cane, and am considered disabled due to an accident many years ago while I was a truck driver. I guess this stigma is enough to dissuade any employer from hiring me in this country. I had the best resume (doctored to the position I was applying for by professionals) job-search training for a couple of months, etc.etc...but still, years later, I'm probably the most highly-trained Network and Internet Security Specialist (yes, it actually says this on my college diploma) within 100 miles of my location...yet NO-ONE, not ONE SINGLE person will even give me a serious job interview. I guess in this country, you have to "look" the part as well.
One of the graduates in my class (who took 2 months longer to graduate 'cause he failed every certification test at least once) got the job when we both showed up for the same job interview.
Employers take one look at the cane I use for support...and they assume I can't do the job because of it. If I ever get the chance to obtain a Visa for working in the States...I KNOW there's no way anyone is going to get my chance at the same job for less pay or anything else! I've even offered to work for 2 weeks free as a testiment to the skills I have and my confidence at doing the job. And you people whine and cry 'cause some Indian got your job....maybe he's more qualified, or maybe you walk with a cane too.

What there is a problem?

Why does H1b have to equate to IT worker. IT workers should only make up 50% or less of the quota. There are companies in the US that are hurting to get workers in other engineering specialities that are not actually provided by the US education system. The reality is that IT workers make up a very large percentage of the H1b quota granted each year. Wouldn't that be a clue....

Raise the price of an H1-B to $30,000. If companies truly need a foreigner, then they will pay. Use the $30,000 to pay for a top-secret security clearance for the displaced American worker so we may work in the defense industry that requires, but is too cheap to sponsor, a security clearance. Full employment for all and end the shortage in the defense sector. For the good of the war effort to.

Actually Bob. I wouldn't. What I would do is higher people at minimum wage...expect a high turn over rate and have a back log of people who want to fill those jobs. I would go to the high schools and the colleges recruit there. As it is now Americans can not afford their own AMERICAN products. So if we cant buy our own products what good is it doing to further push the issue of hiring foreign workers? Also, why do that when the money is being sent back to their home country further pushing us into a recession faster than normal. Not mention that this also impacts our health conditions and also pushes up our Medical expenses.
I see no object in doing this to ourselves. I believe in a "CLOSED" economy where we are responsible for ourselves....where we can get off the need of foreign oil.
Our current situation speaks for itself. You can say anything you want..all in all there is no need to higher outside workers. We as Americans, need to make school a priority, we need to take the money that would normally be used to bring the foreign help here and use that money to train our own people to do these jobs.
We need to get back on our feet. Currently as was stated before..foreign workers are sending money back home at an alarming rate. It has been stated that at this rate, if it is allowed to continue to happen, we WILL be a third world country.
I feel if DOMESTIC companies feel the need to outsource work they should be taxed 5X the normal rate.

Look at Dell, they have had so many compalaints that they are starting to bring the tech support back to America.. same with AT&T.
We need to make America, America again.. We need our work back to put money back in our OWN system. Putting people out of work and hiring foreign workers is not putting money back in our economy. It's only making it worse.

We, as America have screwed our selves, We out sourced ourselves out of jobs and wonder why are economy is so bad. It does not take genius to know why. It is EXACTLY what it is...no matter how you try word it.. phrase it.. its just that.

Tony: Dude, sorry but I think you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no such thing as "closed economy" and I'll bet you my entire annual sallary that at least 95% of stuff you have in your house and/or use on day to day basis is not 100% American. Either it has R&D roots abroad, or its components were made there, or the entire thing was made there. Your example with Dell and AT&T? Come on. They may have started bringing tech support back to the US, but majority of stuff they sell is foreign. Toshiba harddrives, LCD screens, asus motherboards, GSM technology - sure, for instance Motorola is a US company, but most of their phones (or their components) are made abroad. Does your car have ABS? Invented in France and mastered for car use in Germany by Bosch, Mercedes and BMW. Dependency on foreign oil? The US is the largest oil consumer in the world, yet owns just a tiny fraction of world's oil supply. You could try to switch to let's say solar power - but that's a Japanese technology. Nuclear energy would work, except the US doesn't have enough nuclear fuel to replace other, non-American energy technologies. Do you own a CD player and CDs? Well, you shouldn't - they are Dutch, patented by Philips. Blu Ray is Japanese and so is VHS - so I wouldn't bet on much home entertainment in general. And so on and so forth. Even if you didn't want to include R&D/inventions in the product list, you still need to export something to a foreign country, in order to be able to license the technology - and here goes your idea of closed economy, up in smoke.

H1-B fraud..

More than 50% of the workers who come from India are fraud. They really don't have the experince and have fake resumes. The companies in US have a labor approval from one state but they will have their employees working in other states. Most of the companies dont pay on bench.
Most people who came to the US during Y2K problem have no experience in software. They did some courses in software and have come to the US. But they learnt other technologies and moved to other areas of software.
Net/Net there are many loop holes in the system

Take a bow P. and John Reid. Wonderfully put.

Tony, people like us are brought in to replace people like you who want to be overpaid for not knowing what you are talking about.

Tim peters said:
"Meaning only red indians should be allowed to work in America??? Because they are the only native americans ;)"

BS. I was born in the USA, therefore, I'm a native American.

Kiran, would you mind sharing the source of your statistics? I am not implying you made the figures up to look credible when overexaggerating a problem to make people think like you, but those are some serious allegations you have there and just out of fairness I believe they deserve verification before an action is taken...

The fake interviews that companies do with Americans so they can pretend they tried to find an American so as to qualify for an H1-B are the most frustrating past. I talked to a guy and he sat there playing with a yo-yo, another just coded like I was not there, and the group interview where you talk to 5 people, none of whom are American, and they ask you how you would fit in to this organization. These interviews were at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, arent these American government agencies?

Just tell your children not to make the IT mistake, and lets starve this field for Americans.

In our relatively small job market in the midwest, I know there are a significant number of H1B's working in an area (statistical programming) in which I have more than a decade of work experience and a relevant masters degree, yet I CAN'T EVEN GET A JOB INTERVIEW. Tell me that somebody isn't abusing this program to cut out U.S. citizens who happen to be guilty of the high crime of being over 55.

And I don't even WANT their damned health insurance, thank you ... I've got it as a retirement perk from my former employer.

Why not put a tariff on H1Bs and outsourcing? Use the money to help provide services and retraining to those who have been "outsourced."

Computer science is near dead in the US anyway. Many talented CS students are going into nursing and/or skilled trades because of outsourcing, and... oh yeah.. UNIONS. Bring a bunch of H1Bs into a hospital and watch the strike happen! Wanna turn out the lights? H1B electricians.

Why spend all that time and money for a BS or MS in computer sci. to make 30-40K per year while AS and BS level RNs are starting at over 100K, and skilled journey level electricians or real licensed plumbers are making that and more?

Shame that the US will lose its prowess as a technically advanced country, but oh well.. That's the game.

A blog of H1B scam!

I WANT ALL AMERICAN TO READ:

INDIAN STAFFING AGENCIES ARE THE BIGGEST FRAUD COMPANIES THAT I EVER CAME ACROSS.

I PERSONALLY KNOW THOUSAND OF INDIAN STUDENTS ( AT AGE OF 22 AND 23) MAKING WELL OVER 100 THOUSAND A YEAR IN IT JOBS IN THE U.S.

THESE STUDENT ARE NOT AS BRIGHT AS WE ALL THINK. THESE STAFFING AGENCIES MAKE UP FAKE RESUME AS IF THESE STUDENTS HAD EXTENSIVE AMOUNT IN WORK EXPERIENCE...YOU HAVE WELL EDUCATED INDIAN STAFFING AGENCIES WHO WILL GIVE AN OVER THE PHONE INTERVIEWS FOR THESE KIDS SINCE MOST OF THE JOBS ARE IN OTHER STATES...

THIS NONSENSE HAS TO STOP. ITS TAKES YEARS FOR BUISNESS EXECUTIVE TO MAKE 6 FIGURES JOBS AND HERE WE HAVE 22 AND 23 YEARS OLD KIDS RIGHT AFTER COLLEGE MAKING 90 AND 120 THOUSAND DOLLARS JOBS...

ITS THEIR FAULT THAT ALL OF THESE IT JOBS ARE OUTSOURCING SINCE THEY ALL RUINED IT FOR ALL OF US.

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