Shame On Sam
He talks about creating jobs for the future !!!
He just layed off a nice neighbor of mine who spent 60-70 hours a week and very highly rated by peers along with more than 14 years with IBM service. She was the sole provider in her family paying a mortgage and student loans so her college age children could get an IT job at IBM. If that's not a SHAME ON YOU than what is ? How does someone like that sleep at night. I quess pretty good with a 21 million dollar bonus and 30 billion stimulus funds for future jobs. What about the jobs for today. I quess now the @#$% head can show his power and buy Sun Microsystems for 6 BILLION CASH. America leave it if you want a job he says. He did give the poor women the option of moving her family to India if she could get hired there where all the jobs are going. When do people stand up and do something like Dump ALL THEIR IBM STOCK to show even big companies that Nice Hard Working people like my neighbor deserve more than a kick in the behind. If this keeps up we all will be peeing in a hole in some other country just to feed our families

Not that I condone the layoffs, but one must remember that it is a matter of economics. If the company doesn't survive, then there will be more than 10,000 being laid off. The company has to look out for itself first and foremost and has to be accountable to it stockholders. If you want to go after someone, go after the board of directors, who make the long term decisions. You can do that by being a stock holder and vote the board in or out.

For years I've been against unionization of the IT industry, but now I am having second thoughts.

The transfer of 5,000 jobs to India under the guise of restructuring makes one ask exactly why support IBM if its strategy is to help destroy the communities that helped create IBM.

Their cloying ads regarding 'social responsibility' be d***ed.

IT is truly disgusting what gold old Sam is getting wawy with. Anybody who is doing business with IBM should wake up and pull the work. They dont do it anymore anyway. Here is a tip, find out who they sub contract the work to and go to them directly and save big money!

I agree, time to penalize companies that offshore work and fire U.S. workers.

No tax breaks or stimulus money for companies that offshore. In fact that is where to raise taxes a lot!

I agree, time to penalize companies that offshore work and fire U.S. workers.

No tax breaks or stimulus money for companies that offshore. In fact that is where to raise taxes a lot!

What do you expect from India Business Machines (IBM)? They invented IT outsourcing and have honed it to an art form. They might as well move the HQ from NY to Bangalore or whatever. I don't know why people still accept job offers from them. This always happens whenever there is a shift in the economy...hell, even when business is booming. Stay away from IBM unless you are desperate for a job.

I must say though...the whole move your family to India for Indian wages or get laid off....I never thought even IBM would sink that low....and they surprised even me. That is the lowest of the low.

Corporations (and their boards) have no heart, nor conscience, either. They do what they must to survive, in their own best interest; sometimes (often) to the detriment of the employees.

Corporate officers and management view shareholders as partners because they bring them money.

Corporate officers and management view employees as a liability, a necessary evil, and an expense to be controlled.

Stockholders, especially large ones, hold employees in the same contempt; as an annoying expenditure to be reduced and controlled.

None of them care about the employees, nor do they consider them, or treat them as people. They are a 'plug-commodity' to be used until they are no longer usable, no longer necessary, or no longer able. Rich shareholders and corporate officers do not live in the same world as you and I, nor do they even breathe the same air. They do not understand your plight, nor feel your pain, because they exist in a different world.

The shrinking of the middle class, while pushing those on the top end higher, and those on the lower end lower, is an acknowledged fact. So, unless one is rich, they either must work for those who do not or cannot appreciate, value or respect them, or try to find a new niche on their own. In this economy, that is far more difficult than it once was.

You will never be able to give corporations or corporate officers or rich people the 'sanity check' which they so richly deserve, or the ability to see the world that the rest of us live in. They have on golden blinders, and simply see those considered beneath them as human cattle.

Your only option is to find or create a situation where you are more directly in control of your future, instead of leaving it in hands of elitist, narcissistic, suit-wearing robber baron wannabees.

Actually IBM needs money to buy out Sun Microsystems. Where else is IBM going to get the money to buy out another company which is another yearly norm for them. Every year IBM spends millions of dollars buying out or merging with other companies to expand technical expertise or business positioning. It is not just outsourcing that leads to layoffs. The outsourcing is the ethical issue and is the big one that needs to be addressed, I agree.

The shame in this whole process, is that just like the "sucking sound of jobs to Mexico," the work that is done in India and other offshore is substandard. All of the talk about going green. Look at the quality of life over there and in China, and look at the environmental damage.

My Sister edits books for a living and for the last 5-8 years, the jobs got outsourced to India. Now the companies in India are contracting her to do the work (talk about irony), because of the language barrier. I am in IT, anyone calling a help desk in the last few years can feel my pain. If I cannot pay my bills, I will not be buying any IBM products. I do not believe the wages in India will allow them the affordability either.

I have no idea if big blue is justified in the layoffs, but I know this was a narrow, specific crisis before feds got involved and gave the farm to the banksters. Now, thanks to a general and prevalent collectivist attitude in America, it's a general crisis.

Seems to me IBMers need to be marching on DC rather than trashing the executives who are responsible for making tough decisions after the collectivists have trashed the economy.

If you're one of the collectivists who support what's coming down in DC...suck it up.

For over 35 years I have been a proponent of IBM products and support. I have been located primarily in the Poughkeepsie area and have dealt with many great sales and support personnel over the years. I have noticed that more and more products and support have been moving out of the U.S. and have seen the quality diminishing. It is a disgrace that IBM is abandoning the workforce that made them so successful. It's all about the $$ - not merely profits - just out and out GREED. I will definitely seek out alternatives in purchasing new IBM equipment and depending on IBM-based support contracts and funding until they wake up. I think an IBM USA work stoppage may make them blink a bit but unfortunately that would have a detrimental impact on the US workers. Assembling a concerted effort (emails, letters, etc)to contact State and Federal "representatives" should be a way to effect some change.

over and over again,I had the same problem in 1992
you work your butt off. get great promises, then they kick you in the ass, with a bullsh#t excuse and you are out in the street. so what if you were a #1 performer you are still out of a job,from a company that promised if your performance was good you would have a job for life. worse part is the hit on your family, Insurance, promises, promises, reality, you have to pay the first 1000.00 then your retirement insurance will pay 80%. SHAME, SHAME on you IBM.

another kicked in the ass IBM'r

I left IBM last year after 17 years with IBM and lucky enough to find a better job at my current company. Eventually, IBM will be just a marketing company in US. There is no difference between IBM and many US furniture manufacturers - they eventually moved all their production facilities out of America. After a while, the foreign companies realize they can make more money by direct sale and customer find out they can buy directly from manufacturer to save, then all of the US furniture manufactures went out of business. This is exact the same pattern for IBM. It may take longer but it will happen. There are a few India-based conculting firms starting doing business in US without going through all the US companys.

It's Proxy time Folks - SO VOTE ALL THE GREEDY BOARD OF DIRECTORS OUT! Maybe if all of them were voted out the company might get a clue and vote IN their hard working employees deserving of this task and title.

Freescale didn't give a notice on layoffs
and somebody made them retain folks at
full salary for an additional 3 months,
where attendance is optional.

I worked for IBM up until 3 years ago .... happiest day of my life when I saw the light and left on my own. IBM became an awful place to work .... morale was terrible .... obvious that senior has no regard for employees, just lining their own pockets.

They move their head quarters to Bangalore one day. Just a matter of time.

Yea, I was one of the 5K laid off in January after 9 years of service. They actually encourage you take a job with them overseas. Are you kidding me? I am a single mom with a 3 year old. Not really an option for me. They actually cut my job that was actually helping IBM (Tivoli) reduce their cost on PMRs, so now either they have given it to a co-worker that was already working 50 hours a week as is or they cut the work out completely (which is what they told me they did, but who can believe them.)

Well.. I got word on Thursday that my IBM job was going away. I'll get about 24 weeks of pay, medical benefits extended for 6 months and some sort of outplacement assistance.

I've been with IBM for over 12 years, have always received good reviews, and I'm pretty well regarded by my peers and my managers. I have even earned stock options three times, and have earned special merit bonuses every few years. Less than 4 months ago I received special letter of recognition for effectively dealing with a difficult client issue.

But I'm also over 55 years old, I'm a very well paid "band 9", and I have I've been on a recent 45 day medical leave. Oh, and I'm on an older (and therefore more costly) retirement/benefits program.

Word came down to cut payroll, and despite my reasonably strong contribution to many profitable projects, my job was to be eliminated.

I'm being encouraged to "find another position at IBM". But sadly, that's not too likely. IBM, in general, has now had over 10,000 job cuts in the last 90 days. There are some IBM job openings overseas... in India, China, Brazil and Russia, but these are mostly at local pay rates. And adding insult, in almost all cases, IBM will not pay relocation costs.

What angers me most about all this is that IBM did not ask me if I was willing take a reduction in pay and/or benefits - or, even suggest a reduction of work hours/pay. The point is, there are many solutions that could have been considered.

On reflection, if offered, I may have agreed to a 20% pay cut along with a corresponding four day work week (which in IBM-land would have still been 40+ hours).

For me, not all is lost. Scrambling about, and networking like mad, I've found a few (very few) potential assignments - although none within IBM so far.

Most interesting of these is a technical management role at one of IBM's clients (who I did work for last year). The top of their proposed pay range would be about 88% of what I earn at IBM today - albeit with slightly better benefits. Well within the range of reasonability.

I've had an initial telephone interview with a senior manager (with whom I've worked directly with). During the call, the most interesting question was: "Are you capable of kicking IBM's rear end to get them to perform on this @#&* contract... and, if necessary, would you be able to recommend termination of some of all of their services?". It was a question I was not entirely prepared to answer.

Nonetheless, my snap answer was that I had no affinity - positive or negative - towards IBM, and therefore yes, I could do whatever was warranted. But on further reflection, I'm not sure I, or anyone else in my position, could be 100% fair and impartial. I'm certainly angry about being dismissed after making a strong contribution to IBM. But I also have many good friends at IBM, for which I wish only the best.

All of this begs the question: Is kicking so many of their senior consultants to the street going to leave people angry enough that they'll do damage to IBM's business as they find employment with competitors and IBM customer's? I would guess, at very best, it sure won't help IBM.

I feel sorry for those who have lost their job. Those who read this - I hope you will learn something. Having worked for dozens of employers, including IBM; I learned one thing - go for the gold. After my first "layoff;" which was advertised as several hundred people - which in fact was several thousand (about 40 years ago) I learned that working for "me" and not them was going to be the game plan. Every new job, a break in looking for a new job - was a short holiday. One month to size up the job, look down the road, take what the boss was offering and start looking for another job.

Never look back, nobody's going to cry for you, but you. Believe in the motto; hope for the best - expect the worst. Working in the 21st century is a real combat experience. Make a game plan; only way to succeed. Look at each opportunity as just that an opportunity. Don't stop buying the lottery tickets......

Those who work at IBM; did you take avantage of all that was offered or were you one who said why me, do what!, no time.... Well at least you had a very informative learning experience. Now get on with your life. Working at IBM qualifies you for almost every job being offered. Remember, training & education is half the game. Those still employed, shop arround try indeed.com

There is life after death, for all. IBM, like GM, Ford, Chrysler... Pontiac, Plymouth, Circuit City .. the bigger they are, the harded they fall.

The internet reveals all, tells all, KNOWS ALL...
People in their anguish, fail to remember those who lead, those who manage; were in your position once and they saw the light and move upward, onward or what ever. SAM just didn't appear where he was, like our new president Obama. They travel "the right paths."

Where's your path taking you. INDIA?????? no way- they have to many natural disasters, really poor economy, super high death rate, poor quality health system. For all their intelligence; they are really sh...ing on their own country. Hail INDIA.

Maybe its time the rug was pulled out from under IBM, It was good, it was great, but to coin a phrase "You know someone had to do it." Computers can change, they are not energy efficient, they extremely toxic and problematic. There has got to be a better way. If IBM doen's find it, well someone will have to pull the(ir) plug.

Just a few simply thought from some one who see's the writing on the wall.

Time to outsource Sam....

Companies like IBM have the audacity to complain that there are not enough skilled IT workers in the US to do the task of computerizing the health care system/records!!
that is complete B.S.!
IBM should not get one penny of the contracts for taxpayer paid IT work... not one penny! nor should any other supposedly American company cutting US jobs in favor of a foreign workforce. That includes cutting US workers in favor of Visa's....
skilled US CITIZENS ARE HERE!
other than being cheaper, there aren't advantages.. the language barriers are horrendous; they have to be trained too!...
"kindly do the needful" by training and employing US CITIZENS!

Well it completely and totally wrong to say that all jobs are going to India. This is an illusion created by the phrase "Jobs have gone oversaeas". When In fact the truth is IBM is saving dollars by kicing out people near retirement. I have been laid off by IBM and it took me almost 4 months to find another one. IBM knows very well that nobody would go to India and work for IBM at lower salaries. I for one actually tried that option too and realised that there are no jobs there in IBM as well.

This is nothing new (for IBM and many other of the mega-corporations). They "down-sized" me in the mid 80s (1980s) for the same reasons. I was approaching the point where they would have had to fulfill their long-term commitments (i.e. I would have had "vested-interest". They used to "believe" that "employees are our most important resource" and that "...world peace through world trade". Obvious how important their employees are, and how peaceful their new world is going to be.

My sympathies to all those who are now jobless. I am also there. But thing is, it seems like we have all priced ourselves out of our jobs - we have become accustomed to and become an entitlement country. We have come to expect an annual raise. When a regular secretary can make 70-80k in a govt position, or an auto line worker 120k, or a cobol programmer 100k, we come to this. As for that programmer, as I once was several years ago, I was overpaid.
The solution, I think, could be a reduction across the board of salaries. If companies need to reduce cost by 20%, 30%, offer that up to the employees and if they accept, fine. If not, they look for another job. I would now gladly work for 60% of what I was making just to be producing some kind of income. Were other people willing to take a cut, many more people would be buying products, far fewer people on already overburdened unemployment rolls, more taxes being paid, bills and mortgages could still be paid, govt bailouts would not be so huge, and the biggest benefit of all, families would not be torn. Money problems can do that. But do not cut anyone making 40k or less. They are already hurting.
We have become a bit greedy ourselves and the people at the top have lost their moral compass. Everyone needs to pull together to get us out of this morass.

I feel for anyone who loses their jobs; however, TWOIA has a point...I, too, spent years in the ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY, where the same thing happens(ed), and for the bigggest and best; however, when push comes to shove: workers are just files on a table. I understand your woes, and feel DEFINATELY no payouts for outsourcing, but that is in the gov't. This story is not new: My only non-industry job was at THE NORTH FACE, which laid off such a high % of the workforce due to TEFRA. Being in MGT, I left, training a good worker who could (would?) do the work, and opened my own company, also - still going after 15+ years, while I also take jobs on the side (got my MBA). THAT IS THE BEST - perhaps you can group together and do something like that? Oh, BTW - TNF didn't give the severance they promised the workers...so, it could always be worse!

First, to those who've worked for IBM - thank you for the excellent support when we needed it. I recall the day we were moving our data center, and the Grumman van arrived with *everything* the IBM team needed to get the job done... starting with sleeping cots. They were the first items off the truck, now that's dedication. It was a bank's data center, migrating 11 miles down the road, and untold thousands could have been lost per hour of downtime, which is why it was done on Thanksgiving weekend - all four days. No grumbles, no groans, just make it happen, and make it right. Did I mention we opted to upgrade our environment to a 12 CPU processor (in 1985!) during this "move"? No pressure - new facility, new hardware, helpers/grunts who didn't know jack about the hardware (yours truly) and still professional from end to end.

IBM should not have "migrated" jobs away from the USA, regardless of circumstance. I know I personally won't purchase IBM anymore, because of this stigma. We have no problem purchasing the computer parts from lower cost factories, which could be considered the same thing, but (to my knowledge) no tech company closed any large scale factories/shops here to open them up in Korea, Malaysia or other lower cost facilities, making the same items....

Some people will see this as "anything for the buck" and assume the company will do it's "best" (sic) to make itself profitable. I can't wait for the day they have to close the White Plains offices forever because of this "restructuring."

When IBM build the Z series, I thought, where would I go for the best Java server configuration? IBM. They've got the right people, and the PLAN to make it work for business. Sun owned it, but they're wired for engineering tool mindset, not "business." What a bittersweet pill it is now.

I am so sorry that all of you have to contend with this insult to injury, to think your history with the company, your skill set and experience isn't "good enough" to work in the USA, but you would be considered useful if you moved halfway around the world, on your own dime, to take a 40%+ (?) pay cut, just so you could keep working for them.

I just hope the SEC pulls the plug on the merger, for Sun's sake, as the IBM ship is sinking, only this time the rats are staying on the ship.

This is only going to hurt IBM. If their executives had been reading the tech journals, as well as the WSJ they would know that outsourcing (esp. to India) does not pay off in the long run. India will end up packaging and reselling the code generated for IBM and become a low sell competitor. Also, their stock will have a drastic drop as a result of today's action as well as the outsourcing. The company will experience a deep cut in overall value and will have endangered themselves for a takeover (maybe from our socialist government).

Unionizing IT is not the answer but only worsens the problem since unions only hurt employees by their high dues and end up causing companies to build plants oversees. I have been laid off several times. None of the layoffs ever helped the companies; instead they ended up selling the companies to their competitors at a big loss and closing the doors. Layoffs are nothing but a knee-jerk reaction to poor management practices. The consultant or executive who suggest a layoff as a solution to boost revenue should be fired immediately! Instead companies need to restructure their current management and marketing practices by looking for new markets, doing a better job of servicing current markets, and becoming more competitive in their industry.

Steve Moreland
CEO, Intexch, Inc.
www.intexch.com

guys I recommend you go on the streets to protest, wherever you are in the states, this will catch the attention of your whole country.

look at what we do in europe, we protest on the streets and the next day the world over knows about our problems and this forces our leaders to do something about that.

For all you guys talking about India - first understand the world outside US, then comment on them.

What else do you guys expect after what the greedy US economy has turned out - for the entire word to suffer. Stop living on credit first!

Dear all Americans who lost their jobs lately,

It is certainly sad and unfortunate that you lost your job at IBM...

But it is wrong to make IBM responsible for that..Before financial crisis, IBM had not been cutting its workforce in US, and if yes, try to compare with HP and other companies, you would be very much surprised.
Anyways, lets come to the point...F I N A N C I A L C R I S I S. What was the cause? American institutions/companies/banks/investors that turned the crisis on??? Lets face it, and face it in a fair way -> the financial crisis started in U.S.A. and what was the cause? Career, money, even more money, to become rich, become even richer without considering results of its own actions..

Sorry, you Americans have very well educated people, excellent Universities, but you forgot one thing -> to be reasonable at our expectations and needs..

I have personally experienced the outsourcing myth. Outsourcing doesn't help the original companies to make money in the long run. It may make money for only a short period of time, until the locals copy the technology or goods, process..

I come from a developing country, which was used as a low cost production facilty for many foreign companies (mostly western), in the 80s and 90s. those same companies closed down their facilities in their "motherland" and opened new factories in my country, some just outsourced their production to our existing facilities.

what happened at the end , our local workers who gained experience from those "outsourced" ventures.
locals then went on to open their own factories manutacturing the same goods at a lower price, and did compete directly, successfully with the same "western" companies which eventually had to close their doors.

some of the wealthy locals even had local spies in those factories, who would provide all the inside information about everything, like list of clients, technology, process, machinery, suppliers , everything that is needed to allow them to undercut their 'western' base outsourced competition.

I can see the same pattern again. the moral of this experience ? outsourcing does not solve the problem. The problem is incompetent management.

IBM SUCKS

Nobody cares about USA workers other wise they would have shown it by getting behind the IBM employees who have excellent evaluations and were let go to make room for outsourced jobs to India,Brazil and China. The news media did nothing to encourage support but yet when a person is wronged for a dui its all over the papers. IBM has become a virus that needs to be contained. Businesses were never allowed to send anyone to unemployment if they had enough work for you. But now the unemployment system is overloaded with IBM people and IBM still has plenty of work for them. Doesnt the goverment see this that IBM is costing them money to give these laidoff people unemployment and then the idiots want more stimulus money if thats not a joke. The only thing I can think of is that the government must appove of this practice to keep up a good face in other countries by giving them jobs. Lets face it if we give them jobs they wont put lead in our kids toys.

Something I commented on my company's blog, to an article on outsourcing, pasting the content here too.

Offshoring/Outsourcing of jobs is just a
phenomenon that had to happen. There's a concept
in science to which the whole world holds true -
it's called Equilibrium. A matter of higher
energy and a matter of lower energy will not stay
in the same state forever. There will be a flow
of energy. In modern science and also in some
life sciences, it's called Law of Averages.
Nothing will ever be always positive or always
negative, including stocks, game averages in any
sports or the best example - life. Similarly,
with jobs, a good amount of jobs get offshored
to India, China and a whole lot of other
countries. It doesn't stop there. Very soon, jobs
will move out from India and China to other
countries too. It's a phenomenon. I should say
that the US has the advantage of a strong economy
and is doing quite well under these
circumstances, India and/or China won't do so
well in the same situation. More than a year into the financial crisis, the total percentage job
loss has been under two digits. India and China would have reeled under unemployment. I am an
Indian, and I am of course prejudiced towards my
country - but I try and accept what is.

It's easy to theorize but convincing a person
who's lost his job or home that 'everything
happens for the good', isn't easy. Change is
imminent. I personally believe 'everything
happens for the good, not necessarily yours..'
and in that spirit, let's try to get ready to
accept anything the world throws at us.